ToonyMan's reads are unjustified or minimally justified, especially on his scum reads.
TricMagic - definitely not Mafia, giving mafia a double-lynch every day would be nuts (according to him he'd keep the ability if two town got lynched)
Imp - I don't understand anything they're saying, town
Quarque - took fruit-seller and protection with something else, I think they've been upfront and honest with their behavior
Webadict - pingas
Max - not sus
Elephant Parade - probably town
Sofanthiel - I have no idea what they're doing, I don't feel like they're scum though
Crystalmire - they exist
NJW - I don't know
FoU - sus
Jack - sus
First example. The closer he gets to the scum axis, the less he can justify it, and the higher he gets, the more he mechanically focuses.
I'd be fine ignoring that, as preliminary reads and such, but it just keeps going.
I'm not okay voting Tric or Imp here. I think Web (and EP) is wrong to suspect Imp.
Quarque is fine, but I'm keeping in mind that Webadict likes them a lot.
Webadict can wait because I want to see what happens.
I have no strong feelings about NJW but they're giving me a wishbone for my bible so I want them alive to do that, and I don't find them particularly scummy.
Elephant and Crystalmire I don't know.
I'm okay voting Sofanthiel or Max here. Sofanthiel is doing refuge in audacity shit and Max is Max.
I think Jack and FoU are equally scummy, but I'll give Jack a break today.
And going. No justifications, except for those that are mechanically oriented.
Imp and Webadict are both bad votes.
I would probably be voting Jack over FoU here if I was being 100% tryhard and was only looking at this game in isolation instead of being swayed by outside factors.
I'm still okay voting Sofanthiel too. Not really feeling Max because I think they are extremely correct in their assertion that Jack is scum.
My vote preference is something like Jack > FoU > Sofanthiel.
The question to answer in a reads list is, in order, 'who', and 'why', and while Toony answers 'who' a lot, he only rarely answers 'why'.
Max feels good to me.
Their reasoning for why FoU could be town because they wouldn't hard defend Jack so hard feels correct.
Web is lost in the Impfield.
If Elephant can be trusted then maybe they are onto something.
Max and Elephant points towards Crystal being possible scum.
Maybe Sofanthiel is really a red herring, therefore Jack and Crystal are my scumpicks.
Unsure of NJW but want to trade with them and don't have any problems with them.
And while the first low-explanation reads list may have been acceptable, getting this far into Day 1 and still being like that is annoying. Just a few sentences of reasoning for each of these lines would be great.
Why did Toony stop seeing Jack and me as scum and start focusing on Jack and Crystal, here?
I haven't read every recent post in full detail I've just been skimming and putting down my core thoughts.
Webadict isn't a good vote because:
1. I like his posts, I think he's scumhunting
2. Robotnik is cool
3. I can confirm the location of Emeralds, which helps give an idea what he was doing at night
The mechanically driven town read of, none other than webadict.
Oh I thought deadline was 11pm GMT today for some reason, there's more time.
Sofanthiel
Crystal looks okay to me.
Web paranoia doesn't make sense to me, maybe because I have information that other players don't.
Switching off Crystal to sofanthiel. No reason given why 'Crystal looks okay' when just earlier 'Jack and Crystal are my scumpicks'.
@Sofanthiel:
Why go after Web if you think they're 3p and not Jack or FoU if you think they're mafia? Voting Jack is even a two-for-one deal.
I don't think Web is mafia.
@FoU:
Jack feels scummy to me because they used to play more like Imp with a high energy style while constantly prodding things. When they were mafia they would feel off and not do this as much or as well. Lately they have felt this way to me even when they are town which sucks. I don't really feel their heart in this either, but the combination of me botching it last time and you claiming lovers gives me reason not to pursue Jack today, however I still find their behavior scummy so far because I haven't seen them earnestly playing mafia. This is how I read Jack.
Do I think you would make a case against me like this as town? Probably. My issue with you FoU is that you always come off as bad actor to me. I also think you are poor at creating convincing cases. Even Imp has a solid defense for me against your case with the Bible Page stuff and me defending them again.
Trying to
persuade sofanthiel away from webadict and onto me or Jack. Treating my lovers weakness as an upside.
This is Toony's first denser explanation of why any given player is scum, and it
stinks. Toony finds Jack scummy because Jack is playing atypically to his meta. Meta reasoning, as I've mentioned, is kinda terrible because players grow and change. It still has some value, but that's all it's based on. Toony doesn't even try to look at who Jack is interacting with. There's nothing but the meta reasoning, and even in this very post Toony admits it's flawed, 'Lately they have felt this way to me even when they are town'.
This is a pretty flimsy justification for finding someone to be scum and trying to get other players (see his comment to sofanthiel) to vote them.
Imp, I want you to picture Secretdorf in your head. Really focus your thoughts. See the Secretdorf. Feel the Secretdorf. Taste the Secretdorf.
Okay, you got that?
Now replace Secretdorf with Webadict.
Remember how I constantly told you Secretdorf was probably town? Can you believe me with Webadict? At least for today? I think you're pursuing this all wrong.
More defense of webadict, trying to leverage Imp's respect for himself to protect web.
@FoU:
You're wrong about me, and I think you're probably genuinely wrong. You've convinced yourself of something that isn't the case.
Doesn't try to specifically counter my points, just tries to assuage me by town-reading me.
This game is a lot easier for me if I believe Max and Elephant are town.
I would prefer if you survived D1, more so than NJW or Max I think.
I don't think I can give a good readslist for EoD1.
I think Jack is more suspicious than FoU (which goes against Web). I think FoU is doing their crazy case thing they do, or maybe they're just scum.
<1> I think Sofanthiel is more suspicious than Crystal. Crystal responded better to being under pressure than Sofanthiel in my opinion.
I think Max is more suspicious than Elephant unless scum!Elephant is playing really well since people that Max and Elephant have voted have found Max more suspicious than Elephant.
NJW could be scum, especially if Max and Elephant can be trusted.
I think there's one scum inside Jack/FoU.
I think Quarque is definitely town if Web is town. I barely suspect Quarque here unless Web is scum.
I strongly believe Imp and Tric are just town.
It's like, Toony's brain is spinning and burning behind the scenes, but ninety percent of that isn't making it to what he actually shares.
Which doesn't make sense for town!Toony.
<1> I have to give this line a bit of respect, though. It's the only actual justification in this whole post, but it is decent justification.
Just.
Believe in me about Webadict.
If he's scum, I'll know.
Honestly, if Toony is scum, this seems like a bit of humor. 'Of course I know he's scum, he's on my team.'
But I doubt he intended it that way, Toony's been very emotionless all game.
More likely this is just a reputation play.
Of course, then web flipped scum.
But despite that, Toony remains very popular. I don't think y'all are going to accept a Toony case just based on his completely unjustified and mechanically focused reads.
Nor on how he defended webadict, and webadict defended him.
Nor on how Quarque said he was suspicious of him as of the end of Day 1, and now Quarque is dead.
All of this is problematic, but I can't ignore the mechanical side of things, as much as that's Toony's arena of choice this game.
So here's my best explanation for how Toony's role could be a scum one.
A: If Toony is scum, then him having emerald-scanning makes sense, since he can help web grab the emeralds. Web's role seems kinda unreliable and hard to make use of, but if Toony can tell web where the emeralds are, planning becomes much easier.
B: Info-gathering is a useful power for mafia, and as seen in FBYOR 6, info-dumping is a useful cloaking strategy. Spin just dispensed useful information on a daily basis until he was finally taken out on Day 5, if I recall correctly.
C: One of the biggest mechanical arguments against Toony being scum is the Bible Page. Of course, the only people who've
seen the Bible Page are Toony and NJW, as far as I know. Please correct me if I'm wrong here, if I'm wrong about the Bible Page then honestly, even with Toony's behavior I could be forced to conclude that he's town or another third party.
However:
Toony and NJW could be the remaining scum. Yeah, it could be 3 mafia, 1 third party, 8 town. Sucks a bit if so, but sofanthiel wasn't really an anti-town third party, far as I can tell, so it's at least
possible, in terms of balance. In a case like this, the Bible Page exists, but does something other than what Toony has said it does. A bit of a red herring.
Alternatively,
Toony just had the Bible Page inflicted upon him. At this point I think it's an open fact that Imp is responsible for the artifacts. I don't know the exact mechanics of it, but it's possible that NQT decided that it would be fair and balanced to give the scum a mafiakill magnet as a penalty. In which case it could be exactly what Toony said it is. Although, in such a case, that'd be so unfair for the mafia that I'd have to conclude that Toony is part of a three-player mafia team anyways, but in this case it wouldn't necessarily be NJW.
Alternatively,
Imp is mafia with Toony and the Bible Page has hidden effects. Making it an advantage and not a drawback.
Of these three options, I think the middle option and the first option are the more likely, and the third is very unlikely.
Toony has been defending Imp all game, but I also think that Imp is very easy to defend to get points, much like Tric.
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Topic: NQT's Choose-Your-Own-Spheres - -D3 - GAME OVER - TOWN VICTORY (Read 64134 times)