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[Elephant Parade]

Why keep trading it? Wouldn't it be better to make the second-scummiest player hold on to it so scum can't kill anyone else without getting around it?

Since 'give' exists, how and why are we thinking we can force 'the second-scummiest' person to hold onto it?  We lynch them if we find out they gave it to anyone the next day?  This plan seems, weird.  Not sure we'd even agree who the second scummiest person was either.

They'd at least need to waste their night action giving it, and the recipient would see that they had received it. If it ended up with the kill target, it would flip on them.

[ToonyMan]

Also yes I'm in an Elephant groupchat now. You can probably guess who the other groupchat is.

I went from 0 groupchats to 2 groupchats in one night. Great.

[Imp]

They'd at least need to waste their night action giving it, and the recipient would see that they had received it. If it ended up with the kill target, it would flip on them.

What does 'it would flip on them' mean here?  'they would die anyway' or something else?

[EuchreJack]

I think I can wait for NJW to weigh in on the cursed item he's carrying. Besides, if he doesn't want to take the offer, he just doesn't take it.
Dunno if I'll be on when NJW is on, so best to leave the deal up for now.

As I think about the Bible Page, it's hard to imagine the scum team starting with it. A 3-person scum team would still be overpowered, whereas a 2-person scumteam has to be pretty damn obvious before they can do their first kill. Not saying it's impossible, but I suspect NQT wouldn't cripple the scumteam with this item.

[Elephant Parade]

They'd at least need to waste their night action giving it, and the recipient would see that they had received it. If it ended up with the kill target, it would flip on them.

What does 'it would flip on them' mean here?  'they would die anyway' or something else?

It will appear in their roleflip. What I'm saying is that if the person with the page gives it away, at the very least the recipient will know, and giving it to the mafiakill target (assuming a three-man team, a free-kill or free-give, etc.).

I think I can wait for NJW to weigh in on the cursed item he's carrying. Besides, if he doesn't want to take the offer, he just doesn't take it.
Dunno if I'll be on when NJW is on, so best to leave the deal up for now.

As I think about the Bible Page, it's hard to imagine the scum team starting with it. A 3-person scum team would still be overpowered, whereas a 2-person scumteam has to be pretty damn obvious before they can do their first kill. Not saying it's impossible, but I suspect NQT wouldn't cripple the scumteam with this item.

That makes sense. For the record, I'm not saying NJW should hold the page.

[Elephant Parade]

EBEOP: ...and giving it to the mafiakill target means it will appear in their roleflip when they die, meaning they can't secretly dispose of it that way.

[Imp]

For the record, I'm not saying NJW should hold the page.

For the record, I am saying this, until that person wants to pass it to anyone, but I really hope me, secretly, I'd keep it secret, scum doesn't need to know.  If scum seems to know, well NJW or I let the secret out, or somehow the transfer got noticed and informed on, which I can't rule out, but I'll take that chance.

EBEOP: ...and giving it to the mafiakill target means it will appear in their roleflip when they die, meaning they can't secretly dispose of it that way.

Got it.  It would be weird, but possible to explain maybe... or not.

If the wishbone doesn't explain the item that moved from EP to CM - one possible reason that happened could be a scum trying to keep that Page moving, and targeted NJW with a move item ability of any sort.  Maybe it redirected in some way.  I have no idea.  But I love that Page being in the hands of someone who appears able to handle it and keep it.  I am a second, but less ideal for how person.  As in, it appears NJW can allow the item to function and keep it where it should be; I cannot promise I can make it work as intended, but I can do something pro-town with it.

[NJW2000]

Have only skimmed through but:

I have the bible page. I should keep it to redirect the kill to me… I might ask for that apple as I can’t be 100% sure I’ll live. People treating it like a cursed item is weird: someone will get hit by the mafia kill, this just lets us control it.

I wishboned toony and FoU and somehow lost the wishbone doing that… I don’t get it but maybe somebody else will. Mechanical speculation unlikely to be crucial to the win in a closed game let alone a BYOR.

Busy now due to work. Max and Toony obviously not looking great after D1, need to read further. Especially interested in the first time there were votes on Web and people swung off him.

[Imp]

I might ask for that apple as I can’t be 100% sure I’ll live.

Can do that.  Not delighted, but possible.  Think on it.

If you have a way to trade for it, I can openly trade it today.  I don't want to take the page for it, I'll take the page with something else if you want an out, but I keep the apple if so.

I have a lot of trust hinged on you being able to control this 'as planned'.  I view myself as a potential check on you - and sure, you as a potential check on me.  You have decent town cred for D1 in entire with me.

I'm aware, you have a lot of control over that night kill, which sucks if you're anti-town.  I'm aware you had limited control over the vote situation.  I love how you handled it, looks real, beautiful, you didn't have a lot of time and you had a lot to read, and you made what I think is the perfect call.  I like everything you said.

You know your role's likely value to town over time.  You don't know mine, which I'd say is probably between next-to-nothing and more than yours, I don't know enough to judge and I won't tell scum and they're listening.

If you can't handle that Page, it should go to me, with me keeping the apple, based on everything I know.  We can trade today, or you can give tonight secretly, or you can discuss some other plan.  You took it with that understanding, before we knew apples.  My big concern is you control the night kill, we all know now that I don't have an apple, and the small if that you're anti-town, my small concern is two kills coming for me tonight; one redirects to you, one not.  Then again, anyone with protect would know I don't have an apple that I 'might or might not be using'.  But I don't know there's a protect.

There's the two-kill chance stuff too.  Be great if we do nail a second scum, there can only be so many kills, I sure hope nobody's going to explode in multi-kills a night, because we've already seen folks that flipped with 'can explode in many multi-actions for themselves and others, controlled and uncontrolled'.

Let me know.  I do think highly of you.

[Imp]

And that is not a 'I will trade the apple for not-Page if you choose' promise.  That's a think on it, decide, and discuss, and I'll decide too after I hear you.

[notquitethere]

The sickly smell of rotten apples wafts gentle through the chamber.

Vote Count — Day 2
- Crystalizedmire -
- Elephant Parade - [2] Crystalizedmire, Euchrejack
- Euchrejack -
- FallacyofUrist -   
- Imp -
- Maximum Spin
- NJW2000 -
- Toonyman - [1] TricMagic
- TricMagic - 
- No Elimination

Current Elimination: Elephant Parade

Hammer at 5 votes. Day ends 6th February 10pm GMT, in approximately 60 hours (ignoring the weekend).

Current Trades:

Euchrejack: Trade Blue Chaos Emerald for Robert Louis Stevenson's Inkstained Bible Page
-

Please put votes and trades in bold, it does make it easier to spot it.

[FallacyofUrist]

Okay, Catching-Up Post.

Everyone else: Did something happen to you tonight(that you were informed of)?

Two things happened to me, the first was the aforementioned transformation of my previous weakness into... something new.

The other thing I won't claim other than to say it was my own fault and entirely expected.

I got a free copy of one of my powers.

This has some implications.

First, I wrote this during Night 1:

Spoiler: Who is Mafia with Web? (click to show/hide)

[1] snip

[2] Last night I learned 1 player has the Secondary Wincon blue sphere. I didn't learn Emerald locations because Webadict died. I can now learn more things the next night.

[3] I got invited to two different chats by two separate players. I don't know if I should claim who so I won't right now.

[4] Somebody took my wishbone.

[5] I am annoyed that my role has made me incorrectly assume a player's alignment on D1. I think on a purely mechanical level it's evil of NQT to give me an Emerald knowledge ability when the player it benefits would be Mafia, but whatever. [6] The problem is dealt with thanks to Imp. If anybody doubts Imp I am going to punch them.

[1] I like this reasoning a lot more than Day 1's reasoning.

[2] Hmmmmm. I think it's fair to check Secondary Wincon. I also think that our roles would have fantastic synergy. Shame I think you're scum.

[3] I believe you get into this later.

[4] The fuck is a wishbone.

[5] ... gonna be honest, this looks like an excuse to me.

[6] I do think Imp has looked town. Of course, I'm not entirely certain any of us are really capable of reading Imp. You could easily be covering for her, or just getting town cred by defending the obvious town.

I can't tell which.

I feel very silly for being tricked by web. He acted out a plausible narrative to explain why he was acting the way he did and I bought it, I guess.

Feels a bit more genuine to me, but I was predisposed towards EP. I need to make new reads.

ToonyMan how did you survive the night if you had the Bible?

Tric continues to spit fire.

ToonyMan how did you survive the night if you had the Bible?

I gave it to NJW.

Unfortunately Toony is right, at least hypothetically speaking.

The targets should be random unless Toony used it(in which case it'll just target what Toony targeted). I have reason to suspect that the wishbone targeted me and Elephant Parade since I have his mother's jewelry but I can't be sure so I'm asking you if you know. I'm pretty sure everyone else that is talking has claimed what happened to them last night.

Can someone just tell me what the pepperoni a wishbone is please

Yeah... I can do that at some point. I don't think I've fully taken stock of the implications of web's flip yet.

Well, what do you think, buddyolpal. We're friends, right? You fixed up my thingadingding and I dupeddedoopeddo.

So we're totally friends.

Are you willing to vote Toony now? Are you? Are you? Are you?

I acted on FoU and Toony, and will say more later if necessary. Need to go to bed now.

Since I didn't notice anything weirder than expected, I'm more interested in why you chose us, than what your ability actually did.

NQT has informed me that I also gained the item "Wishbone" last night. There was a bit of mod error it seems.

So I lost it and then got it again.

The fuck is a wishbone, Toooonyyyyyy

@Fallacy: I would like you to do three things for me.
1) Stop voting Toonyman. It's not necessary.
2) Imagine a world in which Toonyman is Town. You don't have to believe it. This is just imagining.
Now, in this world where Toonyman is Town, I would like you to help me figure out who is scum.
3) If you want to make a big case why you think Toonyman is scum, feel free to put it in a spoiler, and I will read it. I promise.

Thanks Fallacy. You're town, and you're useful to town.

Sigh only for you, Jack, only for you

It could be a useful hypothetical. Nothing's ever certain in these games.

I'll make two cases, one for Toony as town, one for Toony as mafia, and I'll put them in separate spoilers. Please read both.

I will read it. I promise.

Me too, 100% I will read it, absolute promise.  And consider it, very, very carefully.

Thanks, bud.

That's completely plausible.

Anyway, I invited Toonyman to my "Town Hall" groupchat last night. I picked him because I wanted him onside if he was town and he was a good target for my free-action AoE sphere cop ability if he wasn't.

Also, because I invited him, he gained a copy of the power I used to invite him, so he can invite other people if he feels like blowing a night action on it.

sigh. valid.

Have only skimmed through but:

[1] I have the bible page. I should keep it to redirect the kill to me… I might ask for that apple as I can’t be 100% sure I’ll live. People treating it like a cursed item is weird: someone will get hit by the mafia kill, this just lets us control it.

[2] I wishboned toony and FoU and somehow lost the wishbone doing that… I don’t get it but maybe somebody else will. Mechanical speculation unlikely to be crucial to the win in a closed game let alone a BYOR.

[3] Busy now due to work. Max and Toony obviously not looking great after D1, need to read further. Especially interested in the first time there were votes on Web and people swung off him.

[1] Yeah, giving you the apple is fair. I can see why you wouldn't want to explain your defenses.

[2] The fuck is a wishbone

[3] Well, I'm glad people are at least starting to consider Toony. I swear, he was invincible Day 1. And web was hard advocating for him.


Whew that was a lot of posts. I probably missed some stuff.

I suppose I should mention that I do have the purple chaos emerald, in case anyone wants to do a dummy trade with me. Or anyone wants emeralds for whatever reason.

[Imp]

[2] The fuck is a wishbone

Based on claims:

Wishbone traded from NJW to Toony for the Page, then stolen by CM, and somehow Toony has a second now if I understand, so now 2 wishbones in play, 1 in CM's hands, 1 in Toony's hands, and those 3 players have seen what the item is.  Toony confirms the steal, and is confused by having it reappear in inventory.

Per CM:  If the wishbone targeted you, it would target another player as well. If both players have a random single target ability, they use it on eachother. If only one has, then the player will instead target someone random. This is a mimic action not a redirection.

The wishbone(s) use themselves if not used:

Also per CM: The targets should be random unless Toony used it(in which case it'll just target what Toony targeted). I have reason to suspect that the wishbone targeted me and Elephant Parade since I have his mother's jewelry but I can't be sure so I'm asking you if you know. I'm pretty sure everyone else that is talking has claimed what happened to them last night.

If you want to know more, you need to ask CM, NJW and/or Toony; I have a question to toony, now any of those three - what are the tags on the item?  'mimic' and 'item' it seems?  Any others?

[ToonyMan]

The Wishbone is an item that NJW traded with me. You target two players with it. Those players will use a random single-target ability they have on each other. If only one target has a single-target ability then that player will target a random player.

Wishbone has mimic and cascade.

I didn't use the Wishbone last night. I lost the Wishbone and then received it again for some reason.

I don't have any single-target abilities.

NJW claims they targeted me and FoU last night with another(?) Wishbone, which means if FoU has a single-target ability it would have randomly targeted someone.

I reread D1 and I think NJW is most likely not mafia.

I don't have any single-target ability to randomize so NJW would have only randomized FoU last night onto a random player. It's unlikely that FoU is the Quarque killer because their action would have been randomized, it's too lucky for them to have hit the claimed doctor when that feels like the obvious mafiakill target.

In other words I highly doubt NJW or FoU are mafia from reading D1 again and based on N1 claims.

[ToonyMan]

If the mafiakill counts as a single-target ability then this is evidence that I'm not mafia because I don't have any single-target abilities. If I did then FoU and myself would have used random single-target abilities on each other last night if NJW did successfully wishbone the two of us.