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[Elephant Parade]

Reads
Town

Tric: I think mafia avoid giving town a double-elim. I think town!Tric uses the big shiny red button instantly, reveals his emerald, and tries to grab the mafiakill magnet from Toony.

CrystallizedMire: I get the sense they genuinely wants to help, also the willingness to vote Imp (a likely elim) on just vibes makes me think Town. That's a risky play for mafia.

sofanthiel: Jesus H. Bartholemew Christ. But mafia tend to try to work out what happened before responding to it. They were playful, aggressive and quite confused about the mechanics in the armed forces game, I think this may just be that turned up to 11.


Maybe Town
Quarque: responded well to votes on him, hasn't done the thing he did as mafia last game where he forced a case and committed to it, lots of townreads. Only reason he's not in the full town section is I don't like him talking about how towny and useful his apples make him.

Toonyman: I think the Bible Page he's asking people to take is NAI, as scum could be saddled with it on a blowback role. Haven't been impressed by the weak prods at Sofa, or the way he didn't actively try to find a way out of the Bible Page predicament, but he generally is a bit more aggressive than this as scum. Could see him as survivor, or just less invested town.

EuchreJack: the dialogue with himself, slightly scattered accusations, and townreading people suggests he's town to me. Not really sure though... feels like it's been a while since we played together.

ElephantParade:this is a hard one. I don't agree with their playstyle in general - I think it's slow, by-the-book and often nitpicky - but he hasn't tunneled much, his main read is actually due to vibe and not nitpicking, and he seems to be genuinely being constructive. I would usually expect someone who plays like EP to entirely nitpick, faff about and fade into the shadows D1. Kinda modelling scum!EP as being a bit like scum!Toaster, so might be very wrong here.

Imp: a heckin lot of talking, but asking a few good questions. Didn't love it when they outright probed me on how scum might take advantage of my role's weirdness, but may just have to let that pass. Only Web is this talkative as scum, so if I'm wrong here, I guess he has competition.


Possibly scum/3p
Webadict: more of a mechanical focus than usual, discussion slightly tends towards creating arguments over putting pressure on folks. Coaching QQ a bit feels more usual web. Could also just be emerald-collecting aligned... which isn't great, as I suspect that would give him an incentive to kill people.

Max: I dunno what he is, he's hard to read. Given I have a lot of townreads, wouldn't be too upset to see a Max elim today by POE.


Scum
FoU: The usefulness rankings looks like a way to look busy. I know FoU hasn't rolled town much, but come on, don't post a readslist that explicitly doesn't contain alignment reads, that's such a basic scumtell it's on the wiki. Very boring focus on Spin and Sofanthiel - we get it, they're coasting/flipping out, yeah, yeah. Isn't putting real pressure on them. I feel like this is a simplistic read for me to have but I may just be right.

I dislike this readlist for some reason. Maybe it's that towniness seems to be roughly inversely correlated with sensibility and activity.

[TricMagic]

I feel it's time to point out to NJW that my double lynch would work if I was Mafia. In that it would recharge if I manage to lynch mafia. And I said it wouldn't recharge if mafia got hit. (But that would be the lie, ensuring towniness and a likely spot in end game.) Asssuming Mafia wouldn't have something isn't quite correct. For all you know I'm completely lying and just have a day mafiakill with weird mechanics.

As for the vote, I think you're coasting along. And web is always talkative.

[sofanthiel]

In case someone has forgotten this: Tric admitted to directly benefiting from lynching townies.  Don't believe his lies.

[NJW2000]

I dislike this readlist for some reason. Maybe it's that towniness seems to be roughly inversely correlated with sensibility and activity.

Like I said, our playstyles really don't agree. Some of what I wrote is based on intuition, and yep, sometimes I think someone's town based on unhelpful behaviour. When EJ sounds calm and systematic, it's generally bad news.

To be honest, the most frustrating thing about your posting that is the way you quoted everything but the spoiler tags.

I feel it's time to point out to NJW that my double lynch would work if I was Mafia. In that it would recharge if I manage to lynch mafia. And I said it wouldn't recharge if mafia got hit. (But that would be the lie, ensuring towniness and a likely spot in end game.) Asssuming Mafia wouldn't have something isn't quite correct. For all you know I'm completely lying and just have a day mafiakill with weird mechanics.

As for the vote, I think you're coasting along. And web is always talkative.

I... uh... ok? After reading that several times, I kinda see your point about me not knowing how the elimination power works, but I stand by my read.

Yeah, the FoU vote is based on a boring thing. But everything he's posted is either bland and descriptive or basically conversation. His main contribution so far is "Max isn't being very productive" and "sofanthiel is flailing around madly"... which may be true, but is not good enough for someone with FoU's chaotic catgirl energy. If this was EP's main contribution D1, then maybe that would get a pass, but FoU is required to have ideas, or gut instincts, or something.

[TricMagic]

Not a bad response. Unvote

Sofanthiel. We have double eliminations today. If you believe me to be scum, make your case and vote me.

[FallacyofUrist]

I don't have much time since I'm posting from phone during my lunch break, but I feel like I should at least defend my reads list.

What I mean by 'usefulness' is 'how much and how high quality is the content this person is contributing to the Day'. The most classic scumtell is lack of engagement, passivity. Secondarily, I find people scummy who clog the Day with garbage.

NJW earns some usefulness by attacking me.

Please cut Jack a bit of slack, though. Mafia is exhausting and takes a lot of energy, that's true whether you're town or scum.

Liking Tric's play even more now. Though I think his vote on NJW is based on misunderstanding.

[Elephant Parade]

I dislike this readlist for some reason. Maybe it's that towniness seems to be roughly inversely correlated with sensibility and activity.

Like I said, our playstyles really don't agree. Some of what I wrote is based on intuition, and yep, sometimes I think someone's town based on unhelpful behaviour. When EJ sounds calm and systematic, it's generally bad news.

To be honest, the most frustrating thing about your posting that is the way you quoted everything but the spoiler tags.

This is fair, and your individual reads seem reasonable (though I'll note—which someone else already might have—that Imp was even more hyperactive in Armed Forces Mini, where they were scum), but it's a very convenient readlist for scum. Totally could be a coincidence, just rubs me the wrong way.

I thought leaving in the spoiler would just make it more annoying to read for no reason. I get that it being in a spoiler is relevant context, though it doesn't have any bearing on my opinion. In the future, I will probably break spoiler tags by changing the brackets into parentheses instead of deleting them entirely.

[Imp]

In case someone has forgotten this: Tric admitted to directly benefiting from lynching townies.  Don't believe his lies.

My interpretation of the mechanics involved:

The only claimed 'benefit' is the automatic reset of the multi-eliminate oneshot, if a townie is among the eliminated.

That does sound like 'oh goodie, I get to keep killing even more town!' but only at a superficial level.

We don't throw away our elimination each day even though most games, most days, a town gets elim.

My eyebrow went up at TM's wording.  But this is TM, who loves those kinda words as any role.

How's the mechanics apparently working - and more importantly, how is the whole of everything TM is doing this game looking and working?

[Imp]

EBWOP TM above = TricMagic.  My deep apologies to ToonyMan and TricMagic, and anyone else who might be affected/confused.

[sofanthiel]

Sofanthiel. We have double eliminations today. If you believe me to be scum, make your case and vote me.

Unfortunately, I only have one vote token.  Besides, will you even try to refute the fact that your stated aim is to kill town players?  How do you expect anyone to listen to, not to mention go along with, anything you suggest?
Imp, can you please quote the messages that led you to that conclusion?

[Imp]

I don't have much time since I'm posting from phone during my lunch break, but I feel like I should at least defend my reads list.

What I mean by 'usefulness' is 'how much and how high quality is the content this person is contributing to the Day'. The most classic scumtell is lack of engagement, passivity. Secondarily, I find people scummy who clog the Day with garbage.

NJW earns some usefulness by attacking me.

Please cut Jack a bit of slack, though. Mafia is exhausting and takes a lot of energy, that's true whether you're town or scum.

Liking Tric's play even more now. Though I think his vote on NJW is based on misunderstanding.

Please cut Jack a bit of slack?!?!?!!?

Convince me.

Your reads list is supposedly, your words, based on "What I mean by 'usefulness' is 'how much and how high quality is the content this person is contributing to the Day'. The most classic scumtell is lack of engagement, passivity."

FALLACYOFURIST COME DOWN OFF YOUR HORSE AND SPEAK HONESTLY AND REASONABLY.

I know you can.  You do so out of game.  If you don't, there's a real chance I join many other players in 'cutting jack down from the elim' end of D1, and after we see that flip likely going for you D2, if you survive N1.

EJ is not looking town to me.  You're not making sense to me.  This is potentially deadly.

You're getting slack from me... and you're running out.

[Imp]

Sofanthiel. We have double eliminations today. If you believe me to be scum, make your case and vote me.

Unfortunately, I only have one vote token.  Besides, will you even try to refute the fact that your stated aim is to kill town players?  How do you expect anyone to listen to, not to mention go along with, anything you suggest?
Imp, can you please quote the messages that led you to that conclusion?

Spoiler: Here's the quotes: (click to show/hide)

Guess what, another will die today If it's town, I get something nice. If it's mafia, well too bad for them.

Yeah, I'm coming out quick as smoke, Lynch Two: Electric Boogaloo, playing in forums near you.

As I said, two will die from the lynch. The top voted folks.

Yep. Barring ties in the second lynch. If town gets lynched, I gain another shot. If any other alignment is lynched, I don't. Very much Kill Town.

That said, if I killed two anti-town in one lynch, then I won't get refilled. But that's both unlikely and really bad for them anyway.

Double up, two chances to lynch scum, twice the chance of hitting, and twice the info.

Reason to use it day 1 is because voting d1 usually comes down to 2 people. Mafia usually manages to push votes off of them enough to survive, if we get the right target. That isn't going to happen. If there are two leading votes, both will be eliminated.

Likewise, not using it Day 1 would fit a more cautious strategy. Save it for when it's really needed, or when more information is available. But there is no hiding I'm the one who benefits. If we catch town with the lynch, I get refilled. If we don't, that's two anti-town out of the way Day 1. Mafia have to deal with the fact any suspicion is likely to result in their death via lynch, and thunderdomes will have very immediate results.

Lynching non-town with this won't refill it. As NQT put it, mission accomplished.

Me dying early isn't really an issue for me. Ideally I catch mafia today at which point don't have much to do for rest of game.

[TricMagic]

Sofanthiel. We have double eliminations today. If you believe me to be scum, make your case and vote me.

Unfortunately, I only have one vote token.  Besides, will you even try to refute the fact that your stated aim is to kill town players?  How do you expect anyone to listen to, not to mention go along with, anything you suggest?
Imp, can you please quote the messages that led you to that conclusion?

When will you admit you are aiming daykills around? I made my ability clear as day, where you smear your own in muddy words. Not a vote, but a gun aimed my way.

[ToonyMan]

@Jack:

I think that I will join the Imp votetrain. I feel like Imp is actually talking less than when they are town, leading me to think maybe they have a chat in which they are talking.

No. Where the hell are you seeing this?


@Imp:
For the Bible Page it says first kill or mafiakill is redirected so I assume that means if there's multiple kills in a night then a order for them is determined and I soak the first one.

NQT cleared up how the redirect specifically triggers: The redirect only happens if the player with the Bible Page possesses it for both that Day and still have it at the end of the next Night. In other words, if I successfully remove the item from my possession today then the redirect won't happen for anybody tonight.

I should point out that trades happen after the Day phase is over, but before the Night phase begins. So if I trade with somebody then they won't trigger the Bible Page tonight even if they hold onto it the whole night.

I still don't mind accepting NJW's trade offer though. A wishbone sounds pretty good.

Trade Robert Louis Stevenson's Inkstained Bible Page for Wishbone


I'm not okay voting Tric or Imp here. I think Web (and EP) is wrong to suspect Imp.

Quarque is fine, but I'm keeping in mind that Webadict likes them a lot.

Webadict can wait because I want to see what happens.

I have no strong feelings about NJW but they're giving me a wishbone for my bible so I want them alive to do that, and I don't find them particularly scummy.

Elephant and Crystalmire I don't know.

I'm okay voting Sofanthiel or Max here. Sofanthiel is doing refuge in audacity shit and Max is Max.

I think Jack and FoU are equally scummy, but I'll give Jack a break today.

@FoU:
How phony is Sofanthiel being right now?

[Maximum Spin]

I get why webadict is saying that EuchreJack isn't teamed, but I can't see him as town. Third party is possible, but I think he might just be teamed with a player who can't or won't coach him. Incidentally, FallacyofUrist isn't a good mafiachat coach.

That said, I don't think they'd buddy each other this much as scum? It's almost conceivable they really are just following through with the promise to support each other they made before the game started. In particular, Fallacy seems to be doing all the things town Fallacy usually does, even though most of those things are actually terrible. Like that ridiculous "readslist but not really a readslist", which I'm pretty sure I have seen him do as town, and everyone complained about it then too. I don't think I'll be able to say he's town for sure until he starts saying really weird shady-sounding stuff with random numbers that makes everyone think he's sending secret messages. Or gets superkilled. Those are the big giveaways.

No but really, I feel like Fallacy is acting mostly like in BYOR 16, where he was basically sort of mostly town. But I can't justify EuchreJack's behavior at all and if they really are grouped they're probably teamed, so uh?

Sofanthiel, using bold red for non-votes is kind of impolite. Also you seem to be going completely crazy. That's not impolite, but it is very annoying.

So far, ToonyMan and webadict look most like town, which is a good start. As I am masons with both of them, I trust them implicitly.

NJW is probably the source of the author parts because Wishbone was that dog who likes books, and I think he might be town, but I wouldn't accept his trade here.

I don't like Quarque and I'm also on the side of not trusting Imp, and I think sofanthiel looks bad, but none of them look as bad as EuchreJack, so I'm going to do that thing I do where I don't bother to move my vote.

Anyone else I don't care about, ask again later, I can only comprehend the existence of up to about six people at once.