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[FallacyofUrist]

What bothered me wasn't your choice to push your case on ToonyMan against the odds, it was your refusal to do anything else in addition to that, which would be bad even if we weren't facing a double lynch. I am less bothered now that you're discussing people other than ToonyMan.

You rightfully pointed out that I should at least think about it, considering the situation. Tunnel vision is an ongoing issue for me.

[Imp]

Do you think web's read of ToonyMan as Town is genuine? If not, why not?

Genuine based on the apparent web value system, yes.

This game, what helps web get more emeralds faster and accurately is town.  To the point:

My thought process is that anyone hiding an Emerald is scum

Town = emeralds to web.  This doesn't work for me for web being town.

However, Toony is openly seeking people to help, and Toony can find all the emeralds (currently in play as of that moment, I presume; it seems likely there is/may be ways to make more), and likely more details too about emeralds, which might be of grand interest to web because one emerald maybe helps him get other emeralds faster.

But one reasonable interpretation of Toony=town is Toony=emerald help.

Another is if web=scum, and knows Toony !=scum, nice to flag as a possible partner before death.  I don't really think that's part of it, I think it's a pure and deep emerald fixation.

Which, I want to make clear, I don't find, by itself, anti-town.  Heck, I can potentially help web get more emeralds, and it's fun to help - my team.  Way not fun to help yourself and your team lose.

And I don't see any evidence web actually wants town to win.  Again, maybe this is Secretdorf over again ----- but I saw town web that same game.  I don't see any of the same interests.  web wanted town to live, that game when web was town.  I don't see that here.

[FallacyofUrist]

Okay, second question. This one more important.

Do you think web's flip will be informative as to Toony's alignment? I thought earlier it wouldn't be, not nearly as much as Toony's flip towards web's alignment, but... I don't know, talk to me.

[Imp]

I believe this is the current votecount:

Vote Count — Day 1
- Crystalizedmire - [2] Maximum Spin,  Elephant Parade,
- Elephant Parade
- Euchrejack -
- FallacyofUrist -   
- Imp -
- Quarque -
- Maximum Spin - [2] Quarque, NJW2000
- NJW2000 -
- Sofanthiel - [4] TricMagic, Toonyman, Euchrejack, webadict,
- Toonyman - [1] FallacyofUrist,
- TricMagic -
- Webadict - [3] Imp, Crystalizedmire, Sofanthiel
- No Elimination

Current Eliminations: sofanthiel, webadict,

[Imp]

Okay, second question. This one more important.

Do you think web's flip will be informative as to Toony's alignment? I thought earlier it wouldn't be, not nearly as much as Toony's flip towards web's alignment, but... I don't know, talk to me.

Before I answer that - is there any chance you're wrong about Toony's alignment?  At all.  Or do you already know, flat out know, Toony's alignment?

[ToonyMan]

@Elephant:
I can read that game I think it's correct to do so. I can't right now, but something I want to say first: Imp posting a lot and tunneling one player (incorrectly) is exactly what I've seen them do as town. It partly got him killed by Secretdorf even (a lot of that was because of not dropping the post restriction, but they also held onto Secretdorf being scum really hard which is definitely tunneling).

Speaking of tunneling...

@FoU:

[FallacyofUrist]

Okay, second question. This one more important.

Do you think web's flip will be informative as to Toony's alignment? I thought earlier it wouldn't be, not nearly as much as Toony's flip towards web's alignment, but... I don't know, talk to me.

Before I answer that - is there any chance you're wrong about Toony's alignment?  At all.  Or do you already know, flat out know, Toony's alignment?

I think Toony has exhibited very strong tells towards being scum. He remains my top pick. But no, I don't have guaranteed knowledge. I could be wrong. I don't think I'm wrong, I'm pretty confident, but I could be wrong. Anyone can always be wrong.

Your answer is pretty important to me, here.

[Imp]

Speaking of tunneling...

Hehe!  For all it's not funny, but still.

Also, yay!  So far, I see no hints at all that I am going to get triggered to hold to something like a dead role/dead post restriction because omg no, I will not let go and maybe it's not gone and maybe this matters.

If we have some way to confirm web as not anti-town, should web live long enough for that to be possible, that probably fixes everything.  Between those of us that are pro-town, we can emerald that guy up.

But I see this mountain of not-town-web evidence.

[Maximum Spin]

This entire conversation is a waste of end-of-day.

webadict. There, Imp, you're free. I don't see what you think you see, but I do know that if you scoop your brain out and microwave it for sixty seconds, it kills brain parasites, and I thought you should know that.

[Maximum Spin]

I forgot I also want to say: each and every one of you should feel shame.

[Maximum Spin]

BTW, if web flips town, I AM going to kill you.

[Imp]

Your answer is pretty important to me, here.

Understood.  Here is my best answer, as town, speaking to I don't know what you are:

I see strong evidence of web clinging to toony.  Web wants Toony's help.

Toony wanted to find someone with a sphere and a role-name-type, who is probably town.  I presume Toony wants to help that person, despite having been sphered by them.  That person doesn't exist or didn't say 'oh me' in some clear fashion.  I think Toony's saying 'well, I have to know how to help in order to help', which... is actually better than deciding to swap my role without my consent like happened last game.  So kudos to Toony, yay, but I bet that's because of other reason than 'not gonna do that again'.

Anyway... I think toony wants to help provide information to people.  I think Toony knows that Toony's about to, if he lives, start dropping massive barrels of facts on us all, every day.  Just needs a few clues what to check first.  I have some preferences, but I don't need my answers D2, and I see a lot of reason to say not much at all.  Toony can say it, perhaps, as he learns more about us all.

But I think Toony's pretty sure that as the info rolls in, the scum will be exposed, so who cares if we help them today.  Um, I care, because some of us, like web, could actually be fully empowered in 1-2 nights, which sucks indeed if he's scum.

You mentioned how powerful your role is, your first post.  I can only imagine.

But, I think web likes toony more than toony likes web.  I think web likes toony because of emerald information speed improvements.  I think Toony likes helping anyone who isn't obviously scum.

So, no.  I don't think web's alignment, no matter what it is, tells us anything likely about toony's alignment.

I also don't think any other player in the game could be flipped to tell us what Toony's alignment is.  I truly think Toony's town.  When I flip, I flip town, so I can't prove he's scum even though he's said 'no' to the idea of my elim like 4+ times already D1.  I don't think anyone shows evidence of what Toony's alignment is, except Toony.

[ToonyMan]

I also can't really stay up much longer and I'll be either sleeping or going to work when the day ends.

Not worth it, I'm gonna go to bed.  sofanthiel, kill Crystal Tomorrow, last one's somewhere in Fal, Imp, or NJW

This game is a lot easier for me if I believe Max and Elephant are town.

I would prefer if you survived D1, more so than NJW or Max I think.

I don't think I can give a good readslist for EoD1.

I think Jack is more suspicious than FoU (which goes against Web). I think FoU is doing their crazy case thing they do, or maybe they're just scum.

I think Sofanthiel is more suspicious than Crystal. Crystal responded better to being under pressure than Sofanthiel in my opinion.

I think Max is more suspicious than Elephant unless scum!Elephant is playing really well since people that Max and Elephant have voted have found Max more suspicious than Elephant.

NJW could be scum, especially if Max and Elephant can be trusted.

I think there's one scum inside Jack/FoU.

I think Quarque is definitely town if Web is town. I barely suspect Quarque here unless Web is scum.

I strongly believe Imp and Tric are just town.

PPE:

This entire conversation is a waste of end-of-day.

webadict. There, Imp, you're free. I don't see what you think you see, but I do know that if you scoop your brain out and microwave it for sixty seconds, it kills brain parasites, and I thought you should know that.

I don't think it's correct to follow Imp's tunnel-of-the-game. I don't think Web is mafia.

[Imp]

BTW, if web flips town, I AM going to kill you.

You are going to do what you do.

I have no mechanical evidence that web is scum.  I have a read.  I personally will flip town when I flip.  You can kill me any time you're able and choose.

[EuchreJack]

BTW, if web flips town, I AM going to kill you.

You are going to do what you do.

I have no mechanical evidence that web is scum.  I have a read.  I personally will flip town when I flip.  You can kill me any time you're able and choose.

...I think that was directed at Fallacy. It's not all about you.