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[webadict]

I wanted to find out my discomfort with Imp's behaviour. But all there is is vibes.

Is there anything you want to discuss with me, any concerns you have, or do you just want to see my behavior voted/pressured, or do you want me dead?

Might be more than one of those, but... any questions?  Any concerns?

I get that you're a growing player, I am too.  If you want to practice, let's practice.  Here's my current read of you:

CM: Curious and explorative, not much to read yet.  Reasonable for CM play, probably going to develop better with more time.  Not agreeing to a D1 elim

I would like to see more from you, directed towards me or anyone.  So, if you wanna practice questioning or scumhunting in any style, I'm open, calm, and appreciate it.

Hm.  I hate that I like this post.  I'll also apologize for earlier.  I believe you may have meant that you preferred that the person you asked the question of was you wanted to answer, but I answered it because I had pertinent information.  You brought up the Redirection Sphere.  I brought up that it's unlikely anyone would pick it, BUT that the Redirection Sphere has the potential to show up regardless of picking it.  It was not intended to stop your question from being answered.  It was intended to fill out additional information that you had not considered or may have missed.  Mocking you was kind of a dick move.  Sorry.

Usefulness rankings!

EuchreJack: Hasn't said much. Rightfully recognizes sofanthiel's garbage. inf / 10 Usefulness points, town.

Elephant Parade: Not a ton of content, but isn't getting bogged down in excessive role mechanics discussion, and each post is very focused. 8 / 10 Usefulness points, town candidate.

webadict: Has engaged in some masons joking. Doctor Webadictnik, wants to get chaos emeralds (confirmed by Toony). May have a secondary win condition. Insightful, but obsessed with emeralds. Not atypical web play, still focused on getting people engaged and voting. Sofanthiel is paranoid about him. Is being helpful and offering to help supplement Tric's execution amplifier. 8 / 10 Usefulness points, town candidate.

NJW2000: Likes his role, has a disruptive defensive ability? Reads Tric as town based on Tric's impulsive power use. Casually intending to 'hold web hostage', but doesn't seem that serious about it. Is providing player analysis. I have no idea who a 'Waverly' is. Thinks his role will mitigate the impact of Toony's cursed item, and is offering to trade for it. Intends to ruin the mafiakill, but doesn't have any serious scum candidates yet. Which is fair enough, the day has only recently started. 7 / 10 Usefulness points, town candidate.

TricMagic: After some rethinking, and noting how Tric zeroed in on sofan's BS, and his attitude towards webadict, I'm more inclined to extend Tric at least a little trust. Plus, his ability would be kinda terrifying for scum to hold, though I imagine NQT could balance it somehow. 7 / 10 Usefulness points, town candidate.

ToonyMan: Has dumped a whole truckload of info, and has a cursed item which magnetizes a kill to him. Hasn't super-focused on scum tells, more interested in mechanics. Hasn't really clogged up the Day or tried to eviscerate people for the slightest 'slip', so I'm not worried about him. (Yet.) Still scares me. 6 / 10 Usefulness points.

Imp: Role fixation, but is generally trying to be helpful. Can delete items. Also locks in on sofan's BS. 6 / 10 Usefulness points, but I might raise that later.

Quarque: Very early role name claim, has been asking a lot of questions. Fruit trader. (May have an extra wincon?) Has offered to save Toony's life from his cursed item. Bland play, but not clogging up the Day in any way. 5 / 10 Usefulness points, not a scum candidate.

sofanthiel: Is engaging with the game at least somewhat, but his paranoia levels are off the charts, I don't think he's supplied any real reasoning for any of his suspicions, and he's dripping colors and bolding everywhere. 2 / 10 Usefulness points, high scum candidate.

Maximum Spin: Has made a lot of mason jokes and coasted. No real independent contribution. 0 / 10 Usefulness points, high scum candidate.

Feeling a little less scared now.

Aren't you missing someone?  Crystal?

I agree with some of these, but I think that if you have me high up, then it doesn't make sense to have Toony lower.  I'm chaining Toony to me from now on.  I also strongly disagree with Quarque, given their early Day play.  I actually really liked the way the handled the early bandwagon, and it showed they were actually willing to evolve their play when they chose to vote Maximum Spin.  That's actually kinda gutsy.

TricMagic should be at the top, though, ain't no way.  Everyone else is a level 1 read.

Preliminary Thoughts:

TricMagic - definitely not Mafia, giving mafia a double-lynch every day would be nuts (according to him he'd keep the ability if two town got lynched)
Imp - I don't understand anything they're saying, town

Quarque - took fruit-seller and protection with something else, I think they've been upfront and honest with their behavior
Webadict - pingas
Max - not sus
Elephant Parade - probably town

Sofanthiel - I have no idea what they're doing, I don't feel like they're scum though
Crystalmire - they exist
NJW - I don't know

FoU - sus
Jack - sus

Correct on Tric.
Correct on Quarque.
Correct on me.
Willing to allow leniency on Max.
Pretty accurate on EP.

I would probably rate Crystal higher unless you specifically have a sofa + Crystal team in mind, but that's a level 1 read.  But a fair level 1 read.  ... Actually, I'm not sure, maybe it's better than I thought.

This is a level 3 read, I like that I like your reads, and I won't think about it any further!

Aha, he posted on Page 1 and I saw him while I was looking through the signups. I feel marginally less silly now.

I made the same mistake for the same reason.  I'm dumb.

[FallacyofUrist]

You swear weird.

Contribute more or I'll find a way to daykill you, I swear to Ea-Nasir.

Do you think this encourages me to be more helpful?

Yes. You should fear me just as much as I fear you.

[Maximum Spin]

You know, I'm actually trying to take this game seriously, but every time I do, somebody says something dumb and I don't want to anymore.

[webadict]

You know, I'm actually trying to take this game seriously, but every time I do, somebody says something dumb and I don't want to anymore.

Please just do what I do and quote the post so we can commiserate together.

[Imp]

Hm.  I hate that I like this post.  I'll also apologize for earlier.  I believe you may have meant that you preferred that the person you asked the question of was you wanted to answer, but I answered it because I had pertinent information.  You brought up the Redirection Sphere.  I brought up that it's unlikely anyone would pick it, BUT that the Redirection Sphere has the potential to show up regardless of picking it.  It was not intended to stop your question from being answered.  It was intended to fill out additional information that you had not considered or may have missed.  Mocking you was kind of a dick move.  Sorry.

Sorry too.  I'm sure I'll keep giving you more to hate for all the many possible reasons.

Sure, maybe nobody has a redirection sphere.  Or 6 do.  Maybe I have it, want me to tell you 100% chance?  I mean, your question's not, to my eyes helpful there.

Like, your claim to refill one-shots.  Maybe you're not the only one who can do that either.

Sure, there's also the other ways to get redirections, busses, and even more stuff.

My 'questions' to NJW were explicative and in response to their question to me.

I appeared to look like I'm a scum hunting him or something with my question.  Sadly, whether it makes me seem scummy or not, I think it's a valid question.

I also notice NJW offered to trade for that 'magnet' item that should attract, if everyone's actually listening to what Toons said, not just a mafiakill, but the 'first' kill or mafiakill of the night.  That's some eye-widening mechanics the heck goin' on there, I mean, how does anyone know which is first?

So a pro-town with a kill or an anti-town with a kill might be heading for NJW, who told us that players targeting them can mess stuff up.

But... that magnet isn't a true target, it's a type of redirect, right?  And maybe the nature of NJW is different and better at not messing the night up' for redirects.

Maybe I can redirect in some way.  Maybe I know someone else can or could.  Apparently I think it's worth asking about, enough to eat votes to ask, and note and react to your answer of my question, which I intended to hope help NJW understand as an answer to his question.

So, why do you think it's unlikely that any of us 12 picked Redirection?  That almost seems important to you, why?

[Quarque]

Give Web an apple in return for a green emerald.
Note: if you don't want to eat an apple tonight, it will not rot if you give it to someone else.

[webadict]

The reason why I think Redirection is an unlikely pick is due to a couple of factors, but the first is that Redirection is kinda boring from a mechanical standpoint.  It's more of a scum power, and when developing these roles, we were all likely building a Town role.  Now, I'm not putting it past someone sending in two different types of roles for different alignments, but that's what someone who wasn't super lazy like me would do.

But, picking Redirection is probably done if you pick Necromancy as a way to avoid additional Reds, which is about the only way that makes sense.  A scum-focused build could work with Necromancy + Redirection + Votes, but that's kinda strong as a Mafia build, even with some of the roles we've probably got.

Give Web an apple in return for a green emerald.
Note: if you don't want to eat an apple tonight, it will not rot if you give it to someone else.

I'm not planning on doing that, unless eating the Apple is a free Action.  I'm Refilling you.

[Quarque]

Preliminary Thoughts:

TricMagic - definitely not Mafia, giving mafia a double-lynch every day would be nuts (according to him he'd keep the ability if two town got lynched)
Imp - I don't understand anything they're saying, town

Quarque - took fruit-seller and protection with something else, I think they've been upfront and honest with their behavior
Webadict - pingas
Max - not sus
Elephant Parade - probably town

Sofanthiel - I have no idea what they're doing, I don't feel like they're scum though
Crystalmire - they exist
NJW - I don't know

FoU - sus
Jack - sus

two comments. One, that's not a reliable indicator for Imp. I'm going to reread the one recent game where she was scum but I remember very clearly that this style of posting isn't what gives it away.
Two, I've played in most games where CM participated - scum CM is pretty quiet and even the very limited scumhunting we've seen here is a good sign.

[Elephant Parade]

Vibe check:

=== GOOD VIBES ===
TricMagic: Doesn't feel like scum, the tric whisperers say he's town. I am iffy on the argument that the specifics of his double-lynch power implies he's town -- being disabled after the first time it hits scum seems like a fine, if swingy, drawback in scum hands -- but I'm not sure how much scum would benefit from a double lynch anyway

=== OK VIBES ===
Webadict: I was weirded out by his early-game mechanical focus but he's pivoting to scumhunting, just like in FBYOR
MaximumSpin: In previous games I've found him suspicious regardless of his alignment but I don't here; is that good or bad?
ToonyMan: I'm weirdly hung up on him giving Supernatural as an example of his most recent scum game -- it's the true and correct answer to the question, but he was an SK and he said after the end of the game that he basically played D1 like town (see  this discord message), making it perhaps a poor choice if one wants to see what scum!Toony looks like (presumably the point of the question). I am definitely overweighing this but it's where my head is at. Otherwise good

=== MEH VIBES ===
Crystallizedmire: I liked her post defending Imp but everything else has been kind of nothing

=== WEIRD VIBES ===
Imp: Within their meta but they feel really iffy; don't like the tunnel on Quarque
Sofanthiel: Sometimes confusing and unhelpful, sometimes normal

=== BAD VIBES ===
Fallacyofurist: Absurd paranoia feels phony to me

=== NO VIBES ===
NJW: I cannot think of anything to say about him
Quarque: Hasn't done that much that I've noticed; maybe a bit setup-focused? Need to reread his posts

=== WHERE YOU AT ===
EuchreJack
Hector13

[Quarque]

Qua, connected with my above recent question... there you were claiming to be town and to specifically help others with Apples Against Mafia which you want to trade with, ideally not give.  You hint at a wincon that involves trading.

You're misinterpreting what I said then, I don't have a special wincon. Me trading can help town.

I'd think mafia might want to kill you because of the apples alone, plus if you're not mafia, that's good enough too.  But why are you saying that if Toon is town, toon's life is more valuable than yours?

Toonyman is a better player than me.

Also if you can reliably save folks, that's pretty valuable.  And if you believed what Toons said about the item drawing kills, how is mafia supposed to kill you?

If I can think of a way I'm not telling you.

[Quarque]

To my read, you're making the claim that nqt would absolutely never create a mafia role that gave other players 'protection against the mafia'.

You've got a point, I didn't think about the possibility of multiple mafia teams. Seem a bit unlikely given we have only 12 players, though.

[Maximum Spin]

To my read, you're making the claim that nqt would absolutely never create a mafia role that gave other players 'protection against the mafia'.

You've got a point, I didn't think about the possibility of multiple mafia teams. Seem a bit unlikely given we have only 12 players, though.

BYOR 16 had 3v3 rival teams with 15 players, so I think 2v2 is plausible here.

[Imp]

To my read, you're making the claim that nqt would absolutely never create a mafia role that gave other players 'protection against the mafia'.

You've got a point, I didn't think about the possibility of multiple mafia teams. Seem a bit unlikely given we have only 12 players, though.

I didn't consider it either, and don't think it is so (We would be told?)  The one mafia team can kill its own members in various ways, plans mess up, and having a protection from mafia could help mafia too, so it's not in my eyes a anti-mafia exclusive issue.

Take sof's protect in FoU's last game, it was useful for anyone, and it was part of sof surviving past N1.

If I am not mistaken, Egan_BW attempted to kill notquitethere but accidentally killed sofanthiel.

And Egan and sof that game, both mafia.

Also if you can reliably save folks, that's pretty valuable.  And if you believed what Toons said about the item drawing kills, how is mafia supposed to kill you?

If I can think of a way I'm not telling you.

Great.  But it's part of a weird focus you seem to have, that you're even discussing it there.  That you're even thinking it in what you said to say it.  It doesn't feel real or pro-town thinking to me.

[Imp]

Fallacyofurist: Absurd paranoia feels phony to me

I'm certainly not praising it, but it's similar to their last game as town, where they were the D2 elimination (roles were assigned start of D2).

[TricMagic]

Can't say there isn't a decent amount of chatting going on, so the double vote seems to have had a positive effect there.
Well, off to bed.