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[hector13]

However, I consider CM to be the bigger threat, as laid out in my previous post. Their play doesn’t make me think they’re town aligned at all.

K, so, far as we know, CM dies N3.

But, we gotta elim this person D3, because.... we're terrified about who they are gonna abduct tonight?

So yeah, let's use a limited town resource on killing them a half cycle early, because oh we must, it's so awful who they might abduct, we gotta throw away killing a SK for sure with elim D3, CM dies N3, and you still have that silver bullet for another threat if we have one?

Cause I'm thinking, 'good or bad, CM dies N3 or sooner.  Why throw away the D3 elim?  Why throw away your bullet, or risk a redirect or other problem?'  Why are we so scared of an extra chance to change who is abducted?

And that web thing.  Yeah, D2, with 1 vote on him, and staring at whatever Maximally Spun mess of a role he had, webadict decided 'claiming survivor, in a game-line-descendant of games where survivors traditionally are taken out, is my best option here, but still a bad one'.  I'm not convinced webadict was given a survivor role.  I think there's a chance, in this incredible, amazing, mind-blowing game, that he was staring at a town wincon and a role that doesn't seem to match, including that novote stuff, and decided, "I have few options indeed".

Whatever, whyever FoU also didn't admit any of FoU's role, else we can't believe the roleflip.  This is a weird freaking game (which I appreciate highly), but I think we can deal with web if we have to.

So, can you help me understand why throwing away D3 lynch on someone who dies N3 when we have a known SK and limited resources (as far as we know) for night kills is the best answer for today?

Terrified is quite an extreme way to put it. I’m wary of the gaps they’ve left, and what that could mean. Scum!CM will act on town because the abduction acts like a kill by taking someone out of the game, making it harder for town to organize the lynch. It’s reversible, but only by CM, whom I don’t believe to be town.

Further to that, similar to resurrections, we don’t know if abductees come back the same, and given the bastard nature of the game, we don’t know if even the abductees would know that either. CM released and abducted N2, what’s to say they don’t release webadict as something horrible and then abduct a townie, who’ll be gone when CM dies of the poison?

Why not cut the not-really-losses with losing webadict, instead of either webadict and someone who has utility to town solely based on the fact they have a vote, probably in addition to whatever powers they could have (like a kill or a block or a poison cure etc.) or webadict coming back as something else and losing the voting townie plus their night actions?

In addition to that, we gain information on sofanthiel, who nobody has a bead on because they’re not here.

As for EJ, again, we have a block, we have a kill, and you can deal with the poison. Regardless of that, he might be hostile to town, but he’s also hostile to scum, and they know who he is now. They both have to deal with each other before they can win, so I’ll reverse your question and ask why we should use a limited town resource to do the scum’s job for them?

Eliminating EJ also doesn’t tell us as much about other players. It may confirm NQT has an inspect, but, once more, scum need to eliminate the SK to win, so it tells us little about his alignment.

Regarding night actions… you worry about your’s, I’ll worry about mine.

To be clear, I’m not against lynching EJ, I just think CM is a much better choice.


What’s black and white and red all over?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A penguin with a sunburn

[Crystalizedmire]

All abudctees come back the same!

[Imp]

Further to that, similar to resurrections, we don’t know if abductees come back the same, and given the bastard nature of the game, we don’t know if even the abductees would know that either. CM released and abducted N2, what’s to say they don’t release webadict as something horrible and then abduct a townie, who’ll be gone when CM dies of the poison?

Why not cut the not-really-losses with losing webadict, instead of either webadict and someone who has utility to town solely based on the fact they have a vote, probably in addition to whatever powers they could have (like a kill or a block or a poison cure etc.) or webadict coming back as something else and losing the voting townie plus their night actions?

Wow, you really do sound concerned about what abductees might come back as.

So, why aren't you grilling TM about this, who is our so-far sole returned abductee?  Why aren't you warning us to be as worried about our actual abductee-returnee as you are about the folks not-yet-returned and not-yet-taken?

[Imp]

you can deal with the poison.

Wow you sound like scum.

Or at least you are not reading my words about this.

Or you misread the heck out of them.

Read them again, perhaps?

I'm also claiming I might be able to at-a-huge-cost cure someone of poison

CM, you may have misunderstood me, and I never meant to mislead you.  I -might- be able to cure some of that poison, at huge cost to even try.  I cannot, absolutely cannot, cure a gray alien of it.  I cannot cure you.  Maybe someone else could.

Based on what CM has said, I don't have enough of whatever it would take to help CM with that poison issue.  I could possibly help someone else, but it's a huge maybe, and rather costly, but what help I could attempt to offer I'm certain would not help grey aliens and I am certain I should not try to help with this problem.  I have no idea if anyone else could possibly help CM.

Qua, you piece of scum-like-fellow.

Quit attempting to increase the risks others take.

Quit attempting to waste scarce pro-town resources.

Quit misreading like scum-thinking-folks would.

Or, y'know, continue.  Act anti-town, earn anti-town rewards.

I expect quality play from you, pro town, every step.

[TricMagic]

while I watch you try and lynch the player that needs to kill the SK whether Quaque is town or scum.

Can you help me understand, cannot-be-elimed-one, why you don't think the lynch can deal with the banshee?

You seem 'not-valid target', that's the first problem with potential elim of you.

However, Jack clearly can be targeted for elim.  And when that deacon came with the wagon, they were prepared to lynch a superhero.  I suspect it is God's will that the vote can handle a banshee.  Why are you thinking otherwise?

Why are you snipping out key info?

Lynching SK. We've done it, yay~(deadpan)

Now what?

[Crystalizedmire]

From my perspective, Tricmagic must be anti town if Euchre Jack flips in such a way that proves they couldn't have done the kill on n1.

[TricMagic]

.. Right, you really want to die Crystal.

Imp, can you answer the question of "What then?"

[TricMagic]

Also Crystal, not a reaction to saying I'd probably take Sunday off yesterday? Rather than try and plan for the future, who's your scumteam right now?

[Crystalizedmire]

Reads wise I'm thinking Euchre Jack and you are a team but mechanics and flavour wise you and Quarque.

[hector13]

Further to that, similar to resurrections, we don’t know if abductees come back the same, and given the bastard nature of the game, we don’t know if even the abductees would know that either. CM released and abducted N2, what’s to say they don’t release webadict as something horrible and then abduct a townie, who’ll be gone when CM dies of the poison?

Why not cut the not-really-losses with losing webadict, instead of either webadict and someone who has utility to town solely based on the fact they have a vote, probably in addition to whatever powers they could have (like a kill or a block or a poison cure etc.) or webadict coming back as something else and losing the voting townie plus their night actions?

Wow, you really do sound concerned about what abductees might come back as.

So, why aren't you grilling TM about this, who is our so-far sole returned abductee?  Why aren't you warning us to be as worried about our actual abductee-returnee as you are about the folks not-yet-returned and not-yet-taken?

I don’t have infinite time.
I was expecting people to be more concerned with my revival.
CM proved a more interesting person to focus on.
CM’s flip might reveal what happens to abductees in their care.
CM’s flip means we don’t have to worry about other abductions.
Tric is not shy about revealing things about his role.
If Tric was informed and is now bad, he won’t tell us..
If Tric wasn’t informed and is now bad, he can’t tell us.
Tric seemed to think he was lynchable at the start of the day and was exploring that himself.
I find Tric difficult to parse at times which can make interacting with him not fun and I’m not risking that when I’m tired and sore and have other things to deal with.

Any combination thereof, take your pick.

you can deal with the poison.

Wow you sound like scum.

Or at least you are not reading my words about this.

Or you misread the heck out of them.

Read them again, perhaps?

I'm also claiming I might be able to at-a-huge-cost cure someone of poison

CM, you may have misunderstood me, and I never meant to mislead you.  I -might- be able to cure some of that poison, at huge cost to even try.  I cannot, absolutely cannot, cure a gray alien of it.  I cannot cure you.  Maybe someone else could.

Based on what CM has said, I don't have enough of whatever it would take to help CM with that poison issue.  I could possibly help someone else, but it's a huge maybe, and rather costly, but what help I could attempt to offer I'm certain would not help grey aliens and I am certain I should not try to help with this problem.  I have no idea if anyone else could possibly help CM.

Qua, you piece of scum-like-fellow.

Quit attempting to increase the risks others take.

Quit attempting to waste scarce pro-town resources.

Quit misreading like scum-thinking-folks would.

Or, y'know, continue.  Act anti-town, earn anti-town rewards.

I expect quality play from you, pro town, every step.

You should be expecting that anyway, man. From everyone!

What exactly is misreading about me saying you can deal with the poison when you said you could deal with poison? Particularly as it related to you asking me why I consider lynching EJ to be of less value than CM, and I said there are multiple options available to deal with EJ and their actions in addition to your cure?

Further, I never said you should use it, nor did I instruct you to. Indeed, I specifically said you worry about what you can do and I’ll worry about what I can do. Please tell me what makes you read that as me telling you to increase the risks you (or anyone else should) take, as opposed to maybe muddying the waters for people who may want EJ’s influence at night to go unmolested?

Do you remember when CM abused the limited town resources in order to specifically save sofanthiel, not find scum? Why are you not bothered by that actual waste of a lynch instead of me wanting to use it so CM can’t effectively kill more people? Even if I’m wrong and CM isn’t scum, we get what amounts to a free confirmation of sofanthiel, and we wouldn’t get the same with a lynch on EJ with respect to NQT.

Like… normally I can understand why someone thinks I’m scummy but I’m really struggling to see it here. Help a guy out?

[Crystalizedmire]

Do you remember when CM abused the limited town resources in order to specifically save sofanthiel, not find scum? Why are you not bothered by that actual waste of a lynch instead of me wanting to use it so CM can’t effectively kill more people? Even if I’m wrong and CM isn’t scum, we get what amounts to a free confirmation of sofanthiel, and we wouldn’t get the same with a lynch on EJ with respect to NQT.

Like… normally I can understand why someone thinks I’m scummy but I’m really struggling to see it here. Help a guy out?

I wasn't the one who told sofanthiel to hammer. I wasn't even online at the time! Besides, eliminating Fallacy tells us a lot about who could have killed n1. We have now narrowed down the suspects to Euchre Jack and Tricmagic. If Euchre Jack's roleflip indicates that they couldn't have done the n1 kill, then Tricmagic must be scum. Any one who is against a Euchre Jack flip is probably antitown.

[TricMagic]

Do you remember when CM abused the limited town resources in order to specifically save sofanthiel, not find scum? Why are you not bothered by that actual waste of a lynch instead of me wanting to use it so CM can’t effectively kill more people? Even if I’m wrong and CM isn’t scum, we get what amounts to a free confirmation of sofanthiel, and we wouldn’t get the same with a lynch on EJ with respect to NQT.

Like… normally I can understand why someone thinks I’m scummy but I’m really struggling to see it here. Help a guy out?

I wasn't the one who told sofanthiel to hammer. I wasn't even online at the time! Besides, eliminating Fallacy tells us a lot about who could have killed n1. We have now narrowed down the suspects to Euchre Jack and Tricmagic. If Euchre Jack's roleflip indicates that they couldn't have done the n1 kill, then Tricmagic must be scum. Any one who is against a Euchre Jack flip is probably antitown.

Amazing. Absoultely amazing.  YOU FIGURED IT OUT! YOU FIGURED OUT THE GAME! GOOD JOB cRYSTALIZEDMIRE
inserts sarcastical congratulation favors

You've clearly discovered everyone's roles, so lay it out for the rest of us smucks. We clearly don't know anything about the game to have had our roles so thoroughly dissected. Well, go on now. Lay it out for us, all on the table.


... Nothing? Really? But you sounded so sure about your conclusions, you must know there are no hidden traps in the wings, like a multiactor, or ninja modifier, or even good old fashioned lying. Where is that legendary spear of Crystalized Wit?

[Imp]

Hrm, starting to see why some folks say they try not to interact with TM.

Qua, you aren't reading well at all, which is why you're on my anti-town list.

TM, I hope you're misguided.  But you're likely anti-town to me too.

Jack is a great banshee, good banshee, nuff said, I hope.

I did rounds today already with CM.  Since Qua isn't reading even when I put short, clear quotes before Qua's eyes, not gonna bother to help that one find what they clearly are not choosing to process.

TM, your question's weird and scummy to me.  When does anyone ever ask 'what then?'  We see some roleflip(s), more folk do what more folk do, and we go from there.

My ability that might cure some of poison and definitely will not cure not grey aliens, and comes with high cost and may not work on this situation, clearly doesn't say **fix banshee 'poison'**, because that would be easy to be more definite about.  Given that it has high cost, and isn't specifically and clearly intended to be used in this situation, it's something I considered, and doesn't apply here.  I'd have to learn more to learn if it might apply in another situation, be that poison or something more clearly intended for its use.

We absolutely should not risk more folks getting poisoned because 'Imp can cure them'.  That's just for the folks listening, of course.  Scum project and reinterpret what they choose no matter what a person says.

I'm extremely comfortable with the banshee being removed today.  As predictors of death, who knows, maybe that changes the outcome.  If we are seeing a Jack-TM-Qua team, terrifying as those numbers are, maybe they get some boon from getting the marked CM out today, that could explain the drive on lynching CM, who supposedly dies tonight.  Or fear of abduction, whatever.  Not sure what I'm reading, but I'm pretty sure that Jack isn't town-compatible, and told me the conversation's unproductive.  I'm expecting a Jack elimination today, guess that's where production happens.

Qua, you're not reading, so conversation with you seems unproductive.  Hopefully there's more interesting and useful information from you later, perhaps another day.

TM, you're being pretty unpleasant and aggressive, so interacting with you seems unproductive.  Hopefully there's more interesting and useful information from you later, perhaps another day.

[Crystalizedmire]

Do you remember when CM abused the limited town resources in order to specifically save sofanthiel, not find scum? Why are you not bothered by that actual waste of a lynch instead of me wanting to use it so CM can’t effectively kill more people? Even if I’m wrong and CM isn’t scum, we get what amounts to a free confirmation of sofanthiel, and we wouldn’t get the same with a lynch on EJ with respect to NQT.

Like… normally I can understand why someone thinks I’m scummy but I’m really struggling to see it here. Help a guy out?

I wasn't the one who told sofanthiel to hammer. I wasn't even online at the time! Besides, eliminating Fallacy tells us a lot about who could have killed n1. We have now narrowed down the suspects to Euchre Jack and Tricmagic. If Euchre Jack's roleflip indicates that they couldn't have done the n1 kill, then Tricmagic must be scum. Any one who is against a Euchre Jack flip is probably antitown.

Amazing. Absoultely amazing.  YOU FIGURED IT OUT! YOU FIGURED OUT THE GAME! GOOD JOB cRYSTALIZEDMIRE
inserts sarcastical congratulation favors

You've clearly discovered everyone's roles, so lay it out for the rest of us smucks. We clearly don't know anything about the game to have had our roles so thoroughly dissected. Well, go on now. Lay it out for us, all on the table.


... Nothing? Really? But you sounded so sure about your conclusions, you must know there are no hidden traps in the wings, like a multiactor, or ninja modifier, or even good old fashioned lying. Where is that legendary spear of Crystalized Wit?

I could already confirm what actions I took and sofanthiel was roleblocked which was confirmed by two other sources. Sofanthiel being part of a scum team would mean that either the team is Imp, nqt and sofanthiel or sofanthiel and Tricmagic or sofanthiel and Euchre Jack. All of these are unlikely so sofanthiel is cleared from being scum. Meanwhile, in the event of a double actor(or you being town), you should really try to push for a NQT or Imp elimination and not the third party who will literally die tonight. Euchre Jack claims to not acting n1, if it is true, then anti town should be in nqt, Tricmagic, Imp.

[TricMagic]

Imp, it's scummy as a question cause it's inherently aggressive. Jack flips, we have no new info. Hector's said it in so many words, but Jack flipping doesn't actually solve anything today. So we go into tomorrow with no more information than we did day 2. Meanwhile Crystal has decided that all who seek to go against the aliens are the lowest of scum, not worth listening to. By their reasoning, hector and I are both anti-town. Which if it were the case, means Crystal would be on a one way trip to being lynched, followed by the rest of town dying off at night.

Perhaps this will help get the point across though.

On the blood of my ancestors, I accuse Crystalizedmire to be against Humanity. Monster you may not be, merely alien, but your actions and words paint a picture of evil. so sayeth I, the Dragoon Knight. I tire of these games.

So I have spoken, as Vanilla Town. And so on my Voice do I call for a votecount. No night action from me.