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[hector13]

I found killing me very suspicious, but I'm not surprised nobody else did. I mentioned it in the spec chat... I think the only other one who would've done that in that case was Egan, who was just definitely town.

Why did you visit Egan, btw? I thought that was an odd decision, visiting someone you were so vociferous about being town.

I killed you in part because you were an obvious watch target, and because you pocketed Egan a bit better than I did D1, and because I could only deal with one of you and Imp being insightful on D2.

[webadict]

What do you mean by “selfish town game”?

I probably would have found the points I raised against Imp suspicious when I was town too, probably to the point of convincing myself they were scum, because I’m silly like that. At least on D1.

It felt like you had information that you weren't sharing.  You didn't attempt to determine whether the Mafia would have a track-kill by asking the moderator (which feels like something you would do.)  You didn't push for a No Execution at 4p (which feels like something you would do.)  These are selfish plays because they rely on withholding information, which doesn't feel like your normal playstyle.

Imp was too invested in finding scum, so if you find that scummy, I'm not sure that most people would agree.

[Imp]

Yeah Egan claiming who Max visited before I did really messed me up D2, and the idea of a track-kill (they were actually separate, I could have visited another person to track but too risky) should have been explored a lot better.

Agreed.

If my DM from Tric had told me you had gone to two people....

You or I would have been lynched.

I would have had it no other way.

[Imp]

Any critics for this game though? All trackers is a very silly idea.

This is not a criticism.

However, me being me and... me being me.

A day will come when I will want to offer a ploy, for reasons of my own, that may... get me into this situation.

I'm birby, but I absolutely, 1000% never considered I was actually playing chicken with you, Tric.

Can you help me identify where that line is, what was okay and wasn't, with my messages, that cause you to step in and stop me?

Because...

as town or scum or other...

I would perhaps like to do things 'like' that again.

Won't ever be exactly the same thing unless it should be for reasons of my own.

So I would dearly love to know what happened there.

Why exactly did you step in?

What's the least I could cut out of what I actually did, to not suddenly be facing a mod intent on direct interaction publicly with me in the middle of the game?

[Imp]

It's not your fault. It's just that I have trouble forming reads. I should've tried to scumhunt a lot more.

I want to support and help and encourage you.

But so help me, I mean this to the bottom of my birby soul:

I honestly can't add much to the conversation. I can't defend myself without even looking scummier and I don't have any reads.

Cry.

If you die as town, your teammates, whoever they are, die with you.

Three of us are town.  If you are one of them - can you find it in yourself to rise up and help your teammates win?  Only scum need to defend themselves, right?

Do you feel a drive to save town, and any idea in that motivation how to do so?

For if you are town, your town dies with you.  I don't want to see that.

For the sake of town, town must be able to see, sense, feel, and use your towniness.

Omg, please never never never do that to us again.  Rise up somehow.  Care, somehow.  Please, I beg with every cell in my complex being.

[EuchreJack]

Cry... how could we have better supported you?

Maybe it helps to stop using a shorthand as cringy as Cry.

Agreed, that was quite bad.

[Imp]

Cry... how could we have better supported you?

Maybe it helps to stop using a shorthand as cringy as Cry.

Agreed, that was quite bad.

Ahh, noted, and will follow on.

Crystalizedmire, my deepest apologies.

[hector13]

What do you mean by “selfish town game”?

I probably would have found the points I raised against Imp suspicious when I was town too, probably to the point of convincing myself they were scum, because I’m silly like that. At least on D1.

It felt like you had information that you weren't sharing.  You didn't attempt to determine whether the Mafia would have a track-kill by asking the moderator (which feels like something you would do.)  You didn't push for a No Execution at 4p (which feels like something you would do.)  These are selfish plays because they rely on withholding information, which doesn't feel like your normal playstyle.

Imp was too invested in finding scum, so if you find that scummy, I'm not sure that most people would agree.

It became pretty clear they were scumhunting but it was late on D1 that happened, I would’ve been too focused on what came before that, as well as Imp dropping conversation points from the end of D1 (the shade thrown at Egan and I) on D2.

I might be conflating my desire as scum to find the easiest person to build a case on (and Imp posts a heck of a lot of stuff to build a case from!) as their first post on D2 was an obvious “I know who visited Max” that scum!me couldn’t let develop. I’m hopeful town!me would have reacted differently to that…

I don’t think I would’ve asked Tric about a scum track-kill, I don’t like asking about things I’m technically not supposed to know about in an effort to figure out a game. I absolutely would have been more vociferous about figuring it out if I were town though, and going to a D3, too.

[Imp]

Your first hint it was hector should've been when he was postulating that Imp was Mafia, because Imp was scumhunting very well, but hector did play pretty well by making sure no one found that.  I think this version of hector played a rather selfish Town game, so it would've been worth investigating exactly that further.

The takeaway from this game is probably "If you don't know who it is, find out who it isn't and work backwards."  It was safe to say it wasn't Imp, and Egan_BW was cleared by hector13, which means that it had to be hector13 in your eyes, Crystal.

My sense was that Hec and Egan both thought I was pretty scummy.

To my standards I was scumhunting well, but I'm also not exactly experienced, and my scumhunting skillz such as they are doesn't come from games like this and need some refinement to fit.

And nobody called Hec on calling me not scum hunting.

While I could - that's opinion, and potentially valid.  Egan seemed to share it.  Sof seemed to have faith in me, while not doing his own job past the 'have fun' part.  Max seemed to be using a deep brilliance that was town-aligned, and read me very well to my own thinking, but nobody else seemed to particularly express anything about my scumhunting or protest Hec's declaration about it.

[Imp]

I might be conflating my desire as scum to find the easiest person to build a case on (and Imp posts a heck of a lot of stuff to build a case from!) as their first post on D2 was an obvious “I know who visited Max” that scum!me couldn’t let develop. I’m hopeful town!me would have reacted differently to that…

But if so, we should be able to detect that and kill you for it.

Do you really hope that?   

[Imp]

It became pretty clear they were scumhunting but it was late on D1 that happened, I would’ve been too focused on what came before that, as well as Imp dropping conversation points from the end of D1 (the shade thrown at Egan and I) on D2.

Serious, null tell there.

As I clearly did it as town.  So that's something at least I would do as town.  Everything mattered, every single bit.

[Imp]

Hector, if we had forced a no-lynch successfully, who would you have N2 killed?  Or what else would you have done N2?

[Imp]

Sof!

Get back in here, please   Come down from your golden heaven.

What was up with you and scumhunting D1?

In the future, I plan to ask you and challenge you to scumhunt, instead of going for your throat.

I vaguely remember I had sort of learned that lesson way back when, that decade ago I last played.  I don't think it sank in.

*begs for self to remember, this is not where self learned to scumhunt.  We check out scumpicks, toy with them, invite them to improve... not take them out.  Different ruleset here, please, can we remember this, self?*

Seriously though... what was up with you and scumhunting D1?

[hector13]

Hector, if we had forced a no-lynch successfully, who would you have N2 killed?  Or what else would you have done N2?

I wouldn’t, which is part of the reason why I didn’t want the game to continue beyond D2. Keeping the game in a low information state for as long as possible is a good move as scum, especially if you can do it without people noticing you’re doing it.

[TricMagic]

I stepped in cause I saw you were trying to turn this into a solved game. Which would result in mafia just tracking forever. Next post was me realizing you couldn't actually do that, but still thinking that would kinda break the spirit of the game, a short and fun one before Fal's insanity. (Fallacy always makes good games, even if there are the occasional faultlines.)