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[Imp]

Higher than 0, surely.

I don't need to plan for that.  If we lynch scum D1, in this game, the game ends.  Town has won, scum lost, and no further plans needed for anyone.  However, since I can't be sure that either scum dies D1, or I will be able to say anything D2, so I say all I think might help my wincon before I might lose the ability to speak.

I hope we all do that, well, those of us who have any reason to be concerned about maybe both not lynching scum D1 and not being able to speak D2.

[Egan_BW]

Oh right, scum can kill me at night. I forgot about that.

Eh, I'm sleepy though. This game's just the warm-up to the main event anyways, so I may keep my thoughts for posterity a bit short.


Imp, Sof, and Crystal are more scummy. Max and Hector are less scummy. I think I'd be willing to align my vote with them for tonight.
I'll leave my vote on Imp and go to bed and re-evaluate if I can get on the computer again before hammer or day ends?

[Imp]

Imp, Sof, and Crystal are more scummy. Max and Hector are less scummy.

If you have time, and sleep is more important.

But before day ends, if you happen to have time and are willing, I'd absolutely love for you to explain your reads, your own thoughts.

Sure, they may be similar to others', but just like I really, really wanted Max to explain what he meant about that question sof and I wanted to know about, I would dearly love to know what you are thinking.  Your questions and reactions paint a little picture, but it is a small one.

I love your attitude, the feel of your focus, your goal seems pretty well aimed for as town.  But please do share more of those thoughts when you can, because those do really matter too.

Cry... can you do the same if you have time, please?  Explain thoughts, reasons, town and scum reads and reasons.  We can eat one mislynch if we must and we don't even know if there's a night kill (I would bet yes, because being wrong about no is costly).  But there really could be a D2 and I want us prepped for that best we can, please, all of us possible helping and ready.

[Egan_BW]

Hector doesn't have much time to play, but with his relatively few posts he's not too afraid to get into the thick of things. So I say town.

Max I don't think I have much hope of reading on a day 1, but he's been helpful so far, so that counts for something. As Sof pointed out this may be a towntell. Or maybe not.

Imp and Sofanthiel have been poking at one another all day and you've both been somewhat successful in convincing me that you're scummy. Probably not both scum, but eh.

This is all pretty vibes based, but what ya gonna do. I can adjust when more stuff happens.

[Imp]

Any read on Cry at all, Egan?  You say 'more scummy' for all three you name there, but only list for Imp and sof.  I get sleepy, but I have to wonder.

Imp and Sof are scummy because we're poking at each other all day?  That's what scum do, or how else is that scummy?

[Maximum Spin]

There's definitely only one scum, probably.

[Egan_BW]

That's what scum do

yeah probably.

But nah, your arguments as to the other being scummy are both compelling, that's all. So good work hunting today, your dirty shiny-stealers.
And scum do whatever scum wants to do.

[hector13]

you (the abyss)

Oh look, I'm also weak to flattery today.

I don't think I've seen scum Imp yet, right? But this is certainly consistent with town Imp to me: a bit of a tendency to get stuck in a rut. There's a certain overlap with similar things I've said about a couple of other players in games you were in before. Like if you think back to that Procedural game where we were scum together...
I'm absolutely not unwilling to lynch Imp since, like I said, I don't have any reason to think Imp would actually be different as scum, but so far I'm not seeing it. And I feel like I've noticed before that you can tend to take it personally when somebody doesn't get you - pretty sure you had a row with NJW2000 at least once - so I want to caution you a little from being too locked in on Imp, since you DO seem like your townself to me. I'll even commit to saying that knowing I might end up being embarrassingly wrong.

Wasn’t the game we were scum together the game I got annoyed with NJW? I think it was, because I remember being annoyed that NJW found some innocuous posts from FoU as solid proof of him signaling to me that he was the mafia ally or something (it was two things that he got the numbers 10 and 4 from) from a handful of FoU’s opening posts, and that it got talked about until the end of D1. It was a ridiculous thing and something to get frustrated over :p but mainly because I wanted FoU to stick around, as I hadn’t played a game with him for ages.

If it isn’t that… I dunno. I was an asshole to NJW in a beginner game years ago, but you weren’t around then, afaik.

Anyhow, given the last game in which you were scum with Caz, I’m trying to keep from being too focused on one or two people, but I think it’s okay this time round. The days are shorter so quickly coming to (and discarding) conclusions is important, and Imp and sofanthiel are kicking up red flags a lot, so I’m comfortable with my reads on them so far. There are other ways to pierce through your veil of darkness in this one.

Similarly, I think Imp has a point that sofanthiel does seem within the same general subcontinent of what I've seen of his mafia play. There's a not-quite-total-engagement there that I don't like. And I just have nothing to say about Crymea at all right now, so those two are the ones I feel most suspicious of.

But apart from that, you know I have a thing about changing my vote, and I just don't quite know what to do with it yet.

I’ll be going to bed in a few hours, so I’ll mull things over in the mean time, and drop a vote then as it’s very unlikely I’ll be around for day end.

As for my reads:

Imp and sofanthiel are throwing up a few red flags, so I feel confident one of the two is scum.

Egan is poking at people, and seems determined to get content in to form reads from. Town.

Max and CM are impenetrable or not posting much. I can figure them out some other way.

[Maximum Spin]

Yeah I guess it's probably actually sofanthiel

And that might be the one, hector, in which case it obviously undermines my idea that this is you being town, but whatever, I think you're town anyway. He definitely WAS being ridiculous.

[Imp]

Pointing out fast, because I may not be here to wonder aloud D2.

I wonder at Egan saying a few things since I mentioned top townie pick for me.

Maybe E's tired, said was tired.

But reasoning sparse and erratic for tells and evidence.

said

Imp and Sofanthiel have been poking at one another all day and you've both been somewhat successful in convincing me that you're scummy. Probably not both scum, but eh.

This is all pretty vibes based, but what ya gonna do.

but didn't say why for Cry and reason for Sof and Imp is we're sniping at each other all day, without any details.

That "Probably not both scum, but eh." scum surely can count how many scum there are, but ahhhhhh.  That low level of focus and effort makes me itch and seems to clash with earlier in the day.  Fatigue?  Some strategy?  Has no reads for whatever reason, despite probing appearance earlier?

Fatigue can explain illogic and lack of reasons, and I don't know Egan.  I cut Cry some slack because I have played with Cry and my goal's not to find errors but tell if error or skill is either scum or town error or skill.  Cry has some 'this is Cry' stuff that I don't love but Cry does it as town, I had that really strongly shown to me when I dug hard the last game.

Egan doesn't look particularly scum as a whole.  But weird in the last very recent posts compared to earlier today.  Less town because seems to be saying 'who cares, anyone scummy go go', as scum doesn't need to care who that seems less town (but sure, a almost asleep person doesn't care much either sometimes).  Lowers my strong town-sense, and uneasy too that Hector didn't mention it when confirming his reads after it was said,

Egan is poking at people, and seems determined to get content in to form reads from. Town.

Yeah but... what reads does Egan have?  what reads indeed.... maybe that gets explored D2 if not somehow before end of D1.  I wonder if is strategy that I can't read, but oh I'm less sure of my 'strong town feel' for Egan.

And I note hey, Hector doesn't seem to notice or care, but maybe he was tired too, or maybe it's too vague.  Consider it D2 folks, please, if needed or useful.

[Imp]

Statistics so far based on what I can track:

About 2/3 of D1 has passed.  I see this as our vote count and voting statistics:

- Imp (1)- Egan
- Egan_BW (0)-
- Maximum Spin (0)-
- Crystalizedmire (1)- sof
- Hecter13 (0)-
- sofanthiel (3)- imp, Cry, Max
- No Lynch (0)-


Warning: 4 is hammer

Not voting: Hec

Around 8 hours remaining

Vote switches:
imp switched from sof to Hec to sof
sof switched from Max to Cry
Max switched from Imp to sof

Have never voted:  Hec

Post count:

Imp 32
Egan 17
Max 13
Cry 5
Hec 12
sof 20

[hector13]

You seem awfully convinced there’s going to be a D2 to be able to consider these things, Imp. Do you not think sofanthiel will flip scum?

I also notice you’re throwing shade on the only person to be explicitly voting you.

Egan said in the bit you quoted that his reads are all vibes based. Why are you not giving Max the same level of doubt, given his read on you and sofanthiel are meta based, which is essentially a vibe check?

He even admits to his read on you being possibly inaccurate because he hasn’t seen your scum game, and sofanthiel’s play:

… does seem within the same general subcontinent of what I've seen of his mafia play.

which doesn’t sound hugely confident, change in vote aside.

I think I’ll indulge my inner cheeky child and point out that you’ve been pretty on it in terms of picking up on ostensibly innocuous comments during the game, so why would Max’s uncertain meta reads slip you by when Egan’s doesn’t?

[hector13]

EBWOP You were throwing shade on me as well, I should probably pay attention to what I’m typing instead of playing PaRappa the Rapper 2 at the same time.

Egan and I being the only two people expressing that we think you’re scum, currently.

[Maximum Spin]

Anyone who currently thinks we live in a world where Egan is scum is cordially invited to have your brain scooped out, spit-polished, then dumped in the trash and replaced by a can of tuna salad because I don't see how that could be anything but an improvement.

[Imp]

You seem awfully convinced there’s going to be a D2 to be able to consider these things, Imp. Do you not think sofanthiel will flip scum?

Already explained here.  If Sof is scum, and Sof is my top scumpick, then we don't need any further plans, but they're harmless.  If anyone else is lynched and that person scum, same outcome.  Otherwise, we need a plan.  It doesn't hurt me or anyone to have a plan that ends up not needed.  It can really hurt my wincon for you guys to have no plan at all.  I just watched Max, who fake claimed Doc on D1, wipe town, my town.  I was the N1 kill.  All my games, few as they are and long ago most were, I have rarely ever found scum as my first scumpick (amusingly, right as we went to D1 end in Catfia, Max was mine... and was scum then.  But that's so rare....).  I'm uninformed majority and had my nose rubbed in it plenty - I know I'm likely wrong, like most of the times before.  That means, have a plan for D2 and plan for not being there, because it can happen and that's the plan that needs the most prep ahead of time.  Also means, give you guys all the tools I have, because I may not be here to use them myself.  Fault on me if I die with them.  Not blameworthy I shared them, even if they don't help or could but don't get noticed/used.

I also notice you’re throwing shade on the only person to be explicitly voting you.

I don't care who they are voting, unless that vote doesn't make sense to support them working towards a town wincon when they vote, based on what seems to be their strengths, weaknesses, playstyle, and the rest.

They were voting me when I explained them my top town pick, with reasons.  They were voting me when I explained my concerns.  Why did my reaction change?  Clearly because of the vote, right?  Seriously, Hec, I don't understand your... blinders?  I don't mind at all explaining reasoning, but what the heck is yours?  What are you seeing and not seeing to make you notice what you do and not notice what you don't appear to?  Impressive tunneling, but is it town tunnel or scum tunnel?  I don't expect to find out today.

Why are you not giving Max the same level of doubt

Probably for the same reason that you refer to that dude as 'the abyss' and reference

Max ... impenetrable ... I can figure them out some other way.

Waves a miserable hand at Catfia  Seems we've both had the distinct pleasure of previously gaming beside Max, Catfia was mine.  Maybe we both still have the headache from our previous tangles.  I'm currently horrified that I have some sense of townieness from the dude.

None the less I do, and not for the reasons you say are the same between Egan and Max; vibe does not to me equal meta.  Reasons are reasons.  Egan's surprise and disturb me because there don't seem to be any specifics, at all.  I don't think I've played beside that person, and they didn't seem that... without substance earlier.

Earlier, specific and detailed, reason based, reasons given:

The way I see it, Tric said "that won't work, and if it did work then I would adjust the setup". Not that the setup NEEDS to be adjusted.

Max said it's game-breaking, not valuable. Because it would result in a stalemate, which is a broken game but not of real value to the goal of town winning.

I don't really know why a solid townblock is a bad idea. Crystalizedmire doesn't trust Imp here, which would prevent such a formation, but the goal iteself is reasonable, if it could be reached.

And then here Crystalizedmire seems to be taking Imp's statements themselves at face value, if that makes sense. Reasoning from the point that Imp's hypothesis are true rather than questioning them.

I see analysis, reasoning, thinking.

Later, about actual reads:

Imp, Sof, and Crystal are more scummy.

Imp and Sofanthiel have been poking at one another all day and you've both been somewhat successful in convincing me that you're scummy. Probably not both scum, but eh.

This is all pretty vibes based, but what ya gonna do. I can adjust when more stuff happens.

Doesn't even mention Cry, and what is said, about scummy, is super vague.

That can be a scum tell for a lot of people.  Egan's town tells are specific.  It's easier for scum to pick out reasons why town look town.  That makes me uneasy.  Can it be explained by sleepiness, Egan's style, any of 1000 other reasons?

Yep, could be.  I don't know.  So I spoke up.