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[Maximum Spin]

I mean, yeah, obviously we wouldn't actually just do the same thing over and over again, but the point is that, if it were the optimal choice today, it'd also be the optimal choice tomorrow when there's no change in the game state, so we'd have to either stalemate, or, more realistically, start making suboptimal choices, and town suboptimal choices are more likely to lose. In fact, if I were mafia, I would've gone with it completely, because I feel 100% confident in my ability to get somebody mislynched over it.

Imp, I think you suffer from a bit of a problem of not interpreting what people say enough. Nobody thinks we would all robotically follow through with an infinite stalemate, the point is just that, if an infinite stalemate is the best the plan can do, the plan does not work. That was supposed to be implicit.

[sofanthiel]

I'm actually just a lot more cooperative when I'm randomly in a cooperative mood.

Or so you claim.  My observation holds true within every single game we've both participated in, and actions many words speak louder than... few words or something like that.

seeming somewhat informed minority-acting to my senses.

This is pretty funny from my perspective for reasons I have already implied, hehehe.

[Crystalizedmire]

Since the plan that Imp proposed makes the game unfun for scum, I think Imp is town It is possible that they just proposed a strategy that they knew the gm won't allow happen to get town points but I find that unlikely.
Sofanthiel not wanting to truly commit to the plan makes perfect sense for a townie who wants to have fun. But it does make sense for a scum who wants to win so I say it is a null read.

It doesn't "make the game unfun for scum", either. That's the thing. It doesn't actually trap scum, it just ruins the entire game. Everyone is constrained by it. In fact, it would be just as likely (if not more) for scum to suggest it in order to demoralize town when it fails, basically guaranteeing it won't happen again.

Okay, so Imp could still be scum, though I still think they're town because of the analysis posts.
Last time Sofanthiel was town, they were scum hunting. Here it seems like they're not scum hunting at all. The only time they voted was on Maximum spin near the beginning and me after Imp post the vote count.

[Egan_BW]

Well I feel like I've analyzed the whole gamebreaker incident as much as my brain will be able to glean actual useful information from it, so I'll look to someone who hasn't posted much, who likes birds:

Maximum Spin, Hecter13, and Crystalizedmire, shall we form a flock and fly together?  High over town, looking far and down, watching other birds wander and frown?  Why or why not, try or try not?

I wouldn't because I don't think a 4 person townbloc is probably not a good idea. Besides, I don't trust you enough
Anyways sorry for being silent.

I don't really know why a solid townblock is a bad idea. Crystalizedmire doesn't trust Imp here, which would prevent such a formation, but the goal iteself is reasonable, if it could be reached.

Since the plan that Imp proposed makes the game unfun for scum, I think Imp is town It is possible that they just proposed a strategy that they knew the gm won't allow happen to get town points but I find that unlikely.
Sofanthiel not wanting to truly commit to the plan makes perfect sense for a townie who wants to have fun. But it does make sense for a scum who wants to win so I say it is a null read.

And then here Crystalizedmire seems to be taking Imp's statements themselves at face value, if that makes sense. Reasoning from the point that Imp's hypothesis are true rather than questioning them.

[sofanthiel]

Last time Sofanthiel was town, they were scum hunting. Here it seems like they're not scum hunting at all.

I find the current active participants, which are Spin, Imp, and Egan, all more-or-less town; there isn't enough information to extract from the posts you and hector have made so far to glean any accusation-worthy details. One minor thing is that I'd like to see more involvement from hector, specifically, because his contribution mostly consists of meta-comments about mafia strategy.  The only in-game action I can discern is jumping on the Imp wagon without necessarily committing to it (an unintentional hammer would only harm the last voter, really).

[Imp]

Statistics so far based on what I can track:

About 1/3 of D1 has passed.  I see this as our vote count and voting statistics:

- Imp (2)- Egan, Max
- Egan_BW (0)-
- Maximum Spin (0)-
- Crystalizedmire (1)- sof
- Hecter13 (0)-
- sofanthiel (2)- imp, Cry
- No Lynch (0)-


Warning: 4 is hammer

Not voting: Hec

Bit less than 16 hours remaining

Vote switches:
imp switched from sof to Hec to sof
sof switched from Max to Cry

Have never voted:  Hec

Post count:

Imp 22
Egan 11
Max 9
Cry 3
Hec 5
sof 14

[sofanthiel]

Imp, why does Egan get one more letter than the rest of us?

[Imp]

Imp, why does Egan get one more letter than the rest of us?

I am unable to call Egan Ega without a direct request, apparently.  It's syllable-based.

Hect... the t is part of the last syl.
Maxi... the i is part of a new syl.
sofa... 2 syls vs sof, 1 syl... plus I'm not quite cozy enough with you to think you're furniture and cozy furniture at that.
Cry vs Crys... I think I occasionally veer into Crys, and even go all the way to Crystal.  I'm formal with Cry sometimes!

Ega has meaning in my mind, which doesn't match Egan, a very different feel and flow.  Plus it cuts a syllable, at the benefit of saving just one letter.

How does your question help your wincon?

[hector13]

Last time Sofanthiel was town, they were scum hunting. Here it seems like they're not scum hunting at all.

I find the current active participants, which are Spin, Imp, and Egan, all more-or-less town; there isn't enough information to extract from the posts you and hector have made so far to glean any accusation-worthy details. One minor thing is that I'd like to see more involvement from hector, specifically, because his contribution mostly consists of meta-comments about mafia strategy.  The only in-game action I can discern is jumping on the Imp wagon without necessarily committing to it (an unintentional hammer would only harm the last voter, really).

Excuse me? I have signaled intent to vote Imp because Imp is interpreting things weirdly and apparently willing to waste time in a 24 hour day by not sharing with the class, and is still trying to defend their scheme by suggesting it was only for N1 even though, as Max points out, if it’s the best thing to do from D1 into N1, and the conditions don’t change on D2, it’s still the best thing to do from D2 into N2.

PPE:

Imp, why does Egan get one more letter than the rest of us?

Imp got there first but I grew up in mafia learning that voicing your own concerns even if voiced similarly by someone else is better than remaining silent: what is with that question?

The interesting thing is that Imp, despite noting the question had little merit, still answered it.

[Crystalizedmire]

Well I feel like I've analyzed the whole gamebreaker incident as much as my brain will be able to glean actual useful information from it, so I'll look to someone who hasn't posted much, who likes birds:

Maximum Spin, Hecter13, and Crystalizedmire, shall we form a flock and fly together?  High over town, looking far and down, watching other birds wander and frown?  Why or why not, try or try not?

I wouldn't because I don't think a 4 person townbloc is probably not a good idea. Besides, I don't trust you enough
Anyways sorry for being silent.

I don't really know why a solid townblock is a bad idea. Crystalizedmire doesn't trust Imp here, which would prevent such a formation, but the goal iteself is reasonable, if it could be reached.

The reason why I said it was a bad idea to me is because I spent way too much time on mafiascum wiki so I had it drilled into my head that someone who asks for a townbloc is likely not going to succeed in maintaining it.

[hector13]

Last time Sofanthiel was town, they were scum hunting. Here it seems like they're not scum hunting at all.

I find the current active participants, which are Spin, Imp, and Egan, all more-or-less town; there isn't enough information to extract from the posts you and hector have made so far to glean any accusation-worthy details. One minor thing is that I'd like to see more involvement from hector, specifically, because his contribution mostly consists of meta-comments about mafia strategy.  The only in-game action I can discern is jumping on the Imp wagon without necessarily committing to it (an unintentional hammer would only harm the last voter, really).

I’d also like to know which of Max’s posts have been more than meta-comments and mafia strategy, from your point of view.

[sofanthiel]

How does your question help your wincon?

Just a touch of lighthearted amusement in the downtime.

Now, Impitty Imp, what do you think about the following:

This is an interesting comment as well, suggesting sof may not feel as sure that sof has the same awareness and information as I do.

Why could this be, hm?

Additionally, why did you bring up my prediction of Tric's desire to take action even after my explanation?  You haven't acknowledged it, which may be because you simply missed that post, so I'm pointing your attention towards it and ensuring you're up to date.

Excuse me? I have signaled intent to vote Imp because Imp is interpreting things weirdly and apparently willing to waste time in a 24 hour day by not sharing with the class, and is still trying to defend their scheme by suggesting it was only for N1 even though, as Max points out, if it’s the best thing to do from D1 into N1, and the conditions don’t change on D2, it’s still the best thing to do from D2 into N2.

That's better!  Prior to that, you'd only expressed that intent in two somewhat lackluster posts, only one of which contained a proper piece of evidence.

[hector13]

That’s not better, it’s condensing what I’d already posted into one post, plus a bit of extra justification from more recent Imp posts.

I’d really like you to answer:

Last time Sofanthiel was town, they were scum hunting. Here it seems like they're not scum hunting at all.

I find the current active participants, which are Spin, Imp, and Egan, all more-or-less town; there isn't enough information to extract from the posts you and hector have made so far to glean any accusation-worthy details. One minor thing is that I'd like to see more involvement from hector, specifically, because his contribution mostly consists of meta-comments about mafia strategy.  The only in-game action I can discern is jumping on the Imp wagon without necessarily committing to it (an unintentional hammer would only harm the last voter, really).

I’d also like to know which of Max’s posts have been more than meta-comments and mafia strategy, from your point of view.

[sofanthiel]

I’d really like you to answer:

Come on, it wasn't even 3 minutes!

As a sidenote, Max's willingness to answer questions seems rather atypical, though I've also noticed that he's a lot more cooperative when town and prefers to mess around as scum.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm actually just a lot more cooperative when I'm randomly in a cooperative mood.

Or so you claim.  My observation holds true within every single game we've both participated in, and actions many words speak louder than... few words or something like that.

I will stand by this till death, or at least before I'm proven wrong. Either one works.

[Imp]

is still trying to defend their scheme by suggesting it was only for N1

Negative.

My original plan, based on my then understanding that tracking=inspecting, was we do that behavior as fully described day and night to game end with town win.  With the town win happening, with or without NK, on either D2 lynch or D3 lynch - based on if we mislynched one of the two possible scum candidates based on what the inspects were reported as and what strategy the scum tried to use.  Every possible path, in the plan I described, ends with a town win if followed as described by town control of lynch.

Before I understood I was wrong about tracking=inspect, I said this:

2) we are mod requested not to do this

and this:

But because you have spoken up, no matter what that plan should not be followed now.

I do not support that plan being carried out.  Not for N1, not for D1, not for later days.

Initially because of mod action.  Later I realized I had misunderstood what was being tracked by tracking.  I then said:

However, I'm innocent about if the inspect situation I described works for tracking **at all**.  And I haven't thought that deeply about it yet, I actually was thinking about my inspect ideas/concerns for more than a day.  I didn't consider the track as track worked angle at all really, still haven't deeply considered it.

So far as I can tell, only one player not me has said do the plan, and that player does appear to have understood the tracking meaning correctly:

Anyone see any flaws?  Anyone want to discuss changes?  Anyone wanna protest?

Sounds like a plan to me!

The idea about it being done 'for night one' comes from my explaining my thoughts about the weirdness of the idea that we 'would do it to infinity' that several of you passingly suggested.  Maybe I do think weird, some people do.

I don't recommend we do it for one night, or at all.  I haven't evaluated it deeply, it didn't 'hit me' as a clear town win like the inspect circle did, to the small extent I've evaluated it.  I like that several of you challenged it.  I also like the tiny discussion around my RVS question that Crystal declined.  Reactions can help reveal intention.

Please, will you specifically identify in this or any other quote what led you to think I am

still trying to defend their scheme by suggesting it was only for N1

?  Because that was not what I was trying to communicate at any point, not when I believed we were inspecting, and not when I understood that tracking is movement.  I do not endorse this plan at for three reasons.  A mod said no.  I later realized tracking does not do what I interpreted it to do.  I still haven't seen any way the actual power used as described in the plan could help.