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[Bumber]

They knew Hamas's plan of attack, even if they didn't know the exact date increasing security at those locations would have been trivial, albeit expensive.

Perhaps they thought their security was already adequate to respond to any such attack? Hubris is a form of incompetence. And would increasing security at those locations for 365 days a year not just cause Hamas to select a different target location?

(Also, in the BBC article that hector13 posted, it says that the motorcycles and paragliders weren't widely circulated as part of the plan, and that communicating offline likely helped them avoid Israeli surveillance.)

They could have also sent their spies to try to figure out the date so they would have been ready.

I think this understates the difficulty of getting somebody who comes from outside of Hamas (i.e., that you can trust) into a position where Hamas trusts them enough to share the actual date of the attack (i.e., not disinformation) that they are keeping secret from everyone except the top leaders (i.e., too loyal to be spies) until there's not enough time to foil the attack (i.e., the info becomes worthless.) And digital surveillance of the leaders is pointless when they already assume their devices are tapped.

[bloop_bleep]

They knew Hamas's plan of attack, even if they didn't know the exact date increasing security at those locations would have been trivial, albeit expensive.

Perhaps they thought their security was already adequate to respond to any such attack? Hubris is a form of incompetence. And would increasing security at those locations for 365 days a year not just cause Hamas to select a different target location?

They would at least not leave their entire military running cover for extremist settlers in the West Bank. The IDF was completely unprepared for the attack. They took hours to respond. Not even the most basic preventative measures were put in place on the Gaza border. The level of action taken is completely unreasonable for the information they received from the report.

[Strongpoint]

It is normal for a military (and I'll die on the hill that HAMAS is a de facto military) to train for operations against the likely enemy. Exercises alone never mean that the operation is actually imminent.

Hubris is the reason, the conspiracy theory that Netanyahu intentionally allowed it is unsound. He isn't Stalin who totally ignored Barbarossa. Believe it or not, Israel is a democracy, you need a lot of people to conspire for this to work.

[Il Palazzo]

It wouldn't be the first time in Israel's history when solid intel on imminent attack was ignored/swallowed by bureaucracy and hubris.

[Strongpoint]

There is a noticeable spillover of this war. Yemen's Houthis started attacking commercial vessels with missiles and drones. (they also attacked an American warship but in this day and age, unless they somehow manage to hit one of those, I don't consider it to be important)

It is more unpleasant than Somalian pirates and should it ramp up it may damage the world economy far more significantly than whatever is happening in Gaza.

[King Zultan]

Sounds like this war is gonna turn into an urban version of Vietnam, where they're going to be poking every hole in the ground looking for HAMAS.

Also did that war in Venezuela happen or is it still imminent?

[Strongpoint]

Sounds like this war is gonna turn into an urban version of Vietnam, where they're going to be poking every hole in the ground looking for HAMAS.

Also did that war in Venezuela happen or is it still imminent?

I doubt that the urban version of Vietnam is what gonna happen. There are solutions to tunnel networks, including a simple (and quite ecologically damaging) option of pumping seawater in the tunnel network. Sure, some kind of guerilla attacks on occupying IDF force is guaranteed but I don't expect anything major.


As for Venezuela - 97.5% "voted" on a referendum in favor of annexation but Venezuelan army has yet to make a move. It may be Maduro's way to get stuff from the USA as appeasement. Or it may start any moment now.

[feelotraveller]

https://twitter.com/MustafaBarghou1/status/1732792133147303943

[Strongpoint]

https://twitter.com/MustafaBarghou1/status/1732792133147303943

I see POWs stripped to avoid an unexpected Allah akBOOM from a hidden suicide vest, a common thing among those guys.

The claim of "arrested all the men and children above the age of 15" is just that, a claim with no evidence attached.

[feelotraveller]

https://twitter.com/MustafaBarghou1/status/1732792133147303943

I see POWs stripped to avoid an unexpected Allah akBOOM from a hidden suicide vest, a common thing among those guys.

The claim of "arrested all the men and children above the age of 15" is just that, a claim with no evidence attached.

Shall we add all longstanding Palestinian MP's, or just this one, to the growing list of entities (including - but presumably not limited to  - the United Nations, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and Al Jazeera) who you are deem corrupt liars and not to be accepted as viable sources of evidence?

That aside your prejudices are showing when you call them POW's.  Even the Israeli government has been careful not to claim this.  Their spokesman Eylon Levy said that they would be questioned to "work out who indeed was a Hamas terrorist and who is not".

A first hand report given to the media (by a man who wished to remain anonymous, having 10 cousins amongst those 'detained') claimed that IDF soldiers entered the area and used megaphones to order the men from their homes and UN relief agency (UNRWA) schools. And further that the IDF ordered women in the area to go to a nearby hospital and later threated to shoot them if the men did not come out of their homes.

I'm sure you'll find issue (probably multiple) with a first hand account reported in respectable media, at least inasmuch as it comes into conflict with your extremist views, but I'm not sure what could possibly be regarded by you as a sufficient source of evidence here.  Of course you have as yet presented absolutely none to contest the claim.

[Strongpoint]

Oh, this is a mouthful. Yes, we don't automatically trust Palestinian sources when they say something beneficial for their cause. Same for IDF. Also, reliable evidence, even presented by biased and corrupt sources is still evidence.

In that twit we see only a photo (first spread by the IDF) and a claim. Nothing more. And as I said it proves only one thing - that Israel took POWs and stripped them according to their usual safety practice of looking for suicide vests. BTW, Ukrainian soldiers do THE VERY SAME THING with Russian POWs because no one wants to be killed by a hidden grenade or even a knife to keep some foreigners happy. 

If what you say below is true and there are enough independent accounts that it indeed happened, then I can see it happening. Still, I expect exaggerations.

And still, those are POWs. Sure, there are civilians among combatants because HAMAS fights in civilian clothes. There is no way to distinguish a combatant from a civilian. Detaining all potential combatants and then checking who is not is just a reasonable precaution. Better be safe than dead. It is a war, not a picnic.

[Strongpoint]

Spoiler: I want to know what kind of bombs and shells Israel uses to avoid killing men so well. We should repurpose this evil Jewish weapon and modify it to avoid killing non-combatants instead (click to show/hide)

  

[lemon10]

About half the population of Gaza is children so that makes sense.  Assuming that their bombs kill people randomly they should hit roughly 50% children, 25% adult women, 25% adult men. So yeah, those statistics look pretty on point.


On a different note I find it very ironic that despite the horrible conditions in Gaza said conditions are actually more conductive to the continuance of human life when there aren't actively bombs being dropped (aka, they are actually having kids and the population has just about doubled over the last 25 years) then they are in the entire developed world. A much better way to kill them all off would have been to make them all get 30 years of education and given them all smartphones and social media instead.

[Strongpoint]

A much better way to kill them all off would have been to make them all get 30 years of education and given them all smartphones and social media instead.

They have(had) smartphones and social media and universities and stuff. By no means rich, with all international aid, they lived decent lives economically speaking. Their GDP per capita was close to other countries of the region like Egypt or Lebanon and better than most countries in Africa. By no means, Gaza was a dirt-poor open-air concentration camp living in terrible conditions.

What you need to make some countries produce fewer babies... - to give women the right to control their reproduction.

[pr1mezer0]

Or let them reach menopause.