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[hector13]

Do you still have the post restriction Esteemed Maximum Spin?

[Imp]

I named the ability. I got complete confirmation of that action. There's no way you can think I didn't. Therefore...?

Yeah, but you also don't full claim results, and could have gained it earlier, available to discuss and use at any point.

You also made it clear that you learned about the targeters of your targets - you explained that already, I can find the quote if useful, but it had to do with why you know Esteemed Knightwing64's details, and wow you know a lot of those.  So you probably know who Esteemed The Canadian kitten was targeting when you learned the name of their ability, because you probably were targeting that person at the time.

But that may not be last night.  Probably isn't, unless you were targeting yourself or prefer not to reveal who Esteemed The Canadian kitten and you were targeting.

So if it's from earlier, you don't know who Esteemed The Canadian kitten was targeting last night, or you know who and prefer not to reveal it.

But this would break what you earlier claimed, if you actually were targeting Esteemed The Canadian kitten and got their flavor, because that's not what you prior-claimed.

Or am I confused?  Glad to discuss and compare quotes, don't want any mistakes made.

Is everyone completely committed to lynching me today? No second thoughts at all?

I'm not currently voting you.  I also wouldn't mind you being the last death needed for town to win, same as I recommended for myself, even if you are needed to die for a town win.  That's style though, balance, fairness, and likely related to a promise I made someone not actually a player in the game.  I'm not your ally, if you have one, I'm town and maybe your opposite, though not sure of that either.

[Maximum Spin]

I am pretty committed to lynching you at this point, yes.

Fine. I watched. My intent was to target Imp to see if actively claiming warmed-over supercop would draw a kill. Instead, I was randomized and apparently hit Esteemed Lenglon's target. I figured out who that was because I also received Marked by Death, so the only ways that could have happened are if Esteemed Lenglon (and I) targeted Esteemed BlackHeartKabal, or, if Esteemed BlackHeartKabal had been telling the truth, Esteemed Lenglon and I were merged instead and both received the status by action (and Esteemed Lenglon somehow targeted me through my self-bus, or was lying about having targeted merged players at all). It had to be one or the other, but in the latter case, Esteemed Lenglon would have accidentally self-incriminated and was the real target of the "is in a group chat" result. I decided I thought Esteemed BlackHeartKabal was more likely to be lying.

The action Esteemed Lenglon used is called White Hat, it has the Night tag, and it's hacking-flavored.

The fact that I have the Marked by Death status is why I tried very hard to hide this, and now that I know that there is indeed a kill action tied to it and we have seen the actions of dead players used, I am not at all comfortable confirming it.

Do you still have the post restriction Esteemed Maximum Spin?

Yes. How would I lose it?

Maybe Max can daykill Imp today. I don't think Max is lying about not killing NQT.

If I had a daykill I would have used it by now like Esteemed Jim Groovester.

Yeah, but you also don't full claim results, and could have gained it earlier, available to discuss and use at any point.

I could not have gained that information earlier as, according to Esteemed The Canadian kitten's claim, that was the first night that action existed to be used, because it was only gained after Esteemed The Canadian kitten died and revived once.

Or wait. No, Esteemed The Canadian kitten died and revived n2, not n3, right? Okay, I had the timeline screwed up. I guess this is possible if Esteemed The Canadian kitten used that action n3 and you believe he either targeted Esteemed BlackHeartKabal and (whoever), and didn't mention it, or someone else and I also targeted either that player or Esteemed The Canadian kitten himself instead of what I claimed. If he makes a claim for that night we can work out if there's a possibility that works that way.

You also made it clear that you learned about the targeters of your targets - you explained that already, I can find the quote if useful, but it had to do with why you know Esteemed Knightwing64's details, and wow you know a lot of those.  So you probably know who Esteemed The Canadian kitten was targeting when you learned the name of their ability, because you probably were targeting that person at the time.

That's not how it works. I have no idea who Esteemed The Canadian kitten was targeting. I also didn't know anything about Esteemed Knightwing64's details except the exact contents of the ability, hold on, let me look it up again... "Memetic Consumption". I inferred everything from that, and you'll notice, if you reread Day 2, that I didn't know it was Esteemed Knightwing64 who had done it until that worthy chose to claim having targeted Esteemed webadict with an inspection-detector, and it took me some time to actually realize what he really meant.

I will certainly admit to being clever and very good at working out the situation from small clues, but I don't have the information you think I do. In the case of Esteemed The Canadian kitten, I looked forward to what that one would do, not back at what would be done to him. I can't do both all the time, as I guess that's too powerful.

[Elephant Parade]

This seems plausible but I still think you're probably just bullshitting, sorry. I'll go over it for inconsistencies when I have time.

[Elephant Parade]

Oh right, you never answered this (not sure I ever asked it in the form of a question): Who did TCk target last night?

[Imp]

People claiming Marked By Death status:

Esteemed Lenglon, alive
Esteemed Maximum Spin, alive
Esteemed Elephant Parade, alive

Players claiming to have had it, but resolved:
Esteemed notquitethere, dead (died night after Esteemed BlackHeartKabal died, when that mafiakill ability was 'fresh', if that matters)
Esteemed Imp, doctored

If someone can use the abilities of the dead, fully, as is, then they could have taken out all 4 of those folks N4.  If that could be done, there's someone in that group that isn't wanted dead by someone who can do that.

Alternatively, it's not quite that powerful, and maybe could, used 'remotely' only kill one (and maybe did, removing Esteemed notquitethere, who had a Mark, N4) or maybe using the abilities of the dead isn't fully controlled, and randomizes to some extent, meaning the actor might keep trying.

I can't think of any other angles.

[Maximum Spin]

Oh right, you never answered this (not sure I ever asked it in the form of a question): Who did TCk target last night?

I did already answer this, but I'll answer it again: I have no clue. I don't learn that. I never actually learned the targets of actions, only what they are. Everything else was pure inference.

[Maximum Spin]

When I was able to target more than one person, by the way, I didn't even know which player corresponded to which action. I had to work that out for myself. I think I did pretty well, all things considered.

[hector13]

Rightio, why are we lynching Esteemed Maximum Spin if he didn’t perform the kill?

[Imp]

Here's what Esteemed Maximum Spin inferred or knew, and has stated about Esteemed Knightwing64, from I believe the N1 action that one took on Esteemed Webadict.  Roleflip's at the bottom, to compare for accuracy/differences, in case anyone wants to evaluate.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Review what he said about the Esteemed Knightwing, which was ever so much of future stuff.

But to give you an example of a previous day, I targeted Esteemed notquitethere and Esteemed webadict, ended up catching (not very) Esteemed Egan_BW's action in the net, but also saw Esteemed Knightwing's action (on Esteemed webadict), Esteemed Jim Groovester's action, etc.

Well, Knightwing is some kind of computer virus eating brains from within the noosphere for unclear sinister purpose, so that might be something to be concerned about.

You did go wrong in one place: Knightwing can only confirm that webadict didn't use an inspect, and actually can't confirm even that although he thinks he can.

Knightwing tried to steal web's inspect results to power himself up somehow that I don't know the details of.

Knightwing, don't be a dick and try to steal people's investigative results, lol.

I'm concerned that Knightwing might be in a similar boat to TricMagic re: being able to stop being town.

I don't mind that at all, and also, Knightwing is Town, btw.

So he got all that, and chose to share it... on D2.  Meaning this is base Esteemed Knightwing64.  No upgrades yet.

And somehow the super-flavor-inspector got all that, or guessed enough to coldread that close, because lookie this...

Meanwhile, Knightwing64 is screeching in hunger, before eventually turning to dust.

Knightwing64 was modkilled. Knightwing64 was Town.

Rapidly Evolving Meme By Knightwing (Town)
(Innate, 0 Growth, Auto) Memetic Mutation: The more you learn, the more you are, the more you grow. You gain benefits according to the amount of Growth you have.
-2 Growth: You learn to be flexible. Your abilities cannot be Disabled, and you learn how many players visit you each Night.
-4 Growth: You learn to be agile. You may take an additional action each Night. You learn when you’ve been redirected.
-7 Growth: You learn to be lethal. You gain Basilisk. Infovore and Memetic Consumption are updated such that ‘Something’ becomes ‘Knightwing’.
(Auto) Infovore: You are a new type of creature, with spindly limbs of words and concepts and a writhing core of information. When a player would learn information about you from an investigative action, they instead learn “Something perceives your perception.” and you learn the information instead. You also gain 1 Growth when this happens.
(Night) Memetic Consumption [target]: You can only grow by consuming other infoforms.  Any investigative results your target would gain this Night are replaced with “Something gnaws on your gnosis.” You learn those investigative results for yourself, and gain 1 Growth per action interfered with by this action.

(Reference, Night) Basilisk [target]: You fracture your target’s internal panopticon. You kill them. They learn “Knightwing devours your didact.”

I believe that Esteemed Maximum Spin gets info about the targets of his targets.  I think ideally he needs to know both, for example, that Esteemed Webadict was going to target Esteemed notquitethere.

That appears to have given him a lot of info about people who acted on Esteemed sofanthiel (presume merged with Esteemed notquitethere; the actor Esteemed Egan_BW), acted on Esteemed Webadict (Esteemed Knightwing64).  Both those primary targets of Esteemed Maximum Spin were roleblocked, so had no targets in effect, so I can't really judge if Esteemed Maximum Spin would have gotten info about the direct targets too.

However, Esteemed Maximum Spin discusses having different numbers of targets on various nights:

n1, I targeted Esteemed notquitethere and Esteemed webadict (well, myself, but then bussed onto Esteemed webadict). n2, I targeted myself and Esteemed Lenglon (Esteemed Lenglon and myself) because I felt really sure I'd soak a kill and, since the previous turn I saw a non-factional kill, I figured there could be more so I might learn something useful again. n3, I was randomized by Esteemed hector13 - I just remembered and went back to put the Esteems in - but I believe I understand what happened; that was also the first night I could only target one player. Last night I targeted Esteemed The Canadian kitten and learned the thing I said earlier which I'm not going to go back to my night PM to remember what it said but Esteemed The Canadian kitten confirmed it was right. By the way, Esteemed EuchreJack apparently used the protect power on either Esteemed Lenglon or me n2, that's why I wanted Esteemed The Canadian kitten to check up on that.

I'm not convinced about anything, but I'm pretty content with Esteemed Maximum Spin staying in play longer.

[Elephant Parade]

Rightio, why are we lynching Esteemed Maximum Spin if he didn’t perform the kill?

Because he's a shady bastard, I still think he's an SK, and I don't really feel like participating in a last-minute shuffle.

[Elephant Parade]

also if he's lying about his free-swap being a protect, which I don't believe there's any evidence of, then he remains the most plausible explanation for TCk's result last night

[Imp]

Or wait. No, Esteemed The Canadian kitten died and revived n2, not n3, right? Okay, I had the timeline screwed up. I guess this is possible if Esteemed The Canadian kitten used that action n3 and you believe he either targeted Esteemed BlackHeartKabal and (whoever), and didn't mention it, or someone else and I also targeted either that player or Esteemed The Canadian kitten himself instead of what I claimed. If he makes a claim for that night we can work out if there's a possibility that works that way.

Esteemed The Canadian Kitten claimed to have targeted The Esteemed Secretdorf for N3.  Claimed to get result town.  A night that Esteemed Secretdorf seems to have stolen Esteemed Knightwing64's vote, claimed and backed up by Esteemed Jim Groovester's claim of the same vote-steal target.

Esteemed Maximum Spin appears to have been randomized that night - possibly confirmed by Esteemed hector13 if the gain of 'steam' is true.  I think you claimed randomized that night.

n1, I targeted Esteemed notquitethere and Esteemed webadict (well, myself, but then bussed onto Esteemed webadict). n2, I targeted myself and Esteemed Lenglon (Esteemed Lenglon and myself) because I felt really sure I'd soak a kill and, since the previous turn I saw a non-factional kill, I figured there could be more so I might learn something useful again. n3, I was randomized by Esteemed hector13 - I just remembered and went back to put the Esteems in - but I believe I understand what happened; that was also the first night I could only target one player. Last night I targeted Esteemed The Canadian kitten and learned the thing I said earlier which I'm not going to go back to my night PM to remember what it said but Esteemed The Canadian kitten confirmed it was right. By the way, Esteemed EuchreJack apparently used the protect power on either Esteemed Lenglon or me n2, that's why I wanted Esteemed The Canadian kitten to check up on that.

[Elephant Parade]

Deadchat saying anything interesting, TCk?

[The Canadian kitten]

New commentary from the deadchat, luckily woke up now instead of 6 hours later or something like that. Still tired, so don't expect me to voice opinions when I barely know what is going on.
Message to Imp from TricMagic, stop looking to others for help and make your own decisions. Trying to hold a conversation with the dead is just asking to eat up time town doesn't have. Go kill some mafia or an SK. @The Canadian Kitten

Web: Ehhh, look at that, I agree with Tric, but specifically, I did not receive anything other than an inspect, my role changing, and death.
Remember: Hurry it up.  The longer you stall, the less time you have.

Spoiler: Long Convo (click to show/hide)

NQT: OH STOP PRESS. There was something else in my PM when I died @The Canadian Kitten : I lost one vote.
I dunno if that was claimed in thread but it happened.
Also, major asshole move to remove a vote from the confirmed town
So maybe it's part of a kill???

Web: Then Jim stole a vote from you, no?
Jim said he stole a vote from SD, but SD didn't do anything, which is verifiable

NQT: Jim says he was rando'd  to me:

I should probably mention that my vote steal has another effect in that it makes my target unable to target me. I don't think this has been relevant given my choices of targets and I don't think it help solves any mysteries. For reference, I targeted sofanthiel (doubled to NQT probably) on N1, sofanthiel on N2, Knightwing64 on N3, and Secretdorf (but probably randomized to NQT) on N4.

I don't know why he says randomised, over redirection etc. Short hand or does he know something?

Web: Okay, that's good news, though.  I don't think Jim killed you
There an oddity here, which is that SD and you were not properly Bussed

NQT: Well maybe he's concerned about being tracked. Maybe he has a vote-steal + kill which he intended to murder SD with but embarrassingly killed me instead and now he doesn't want to say. I don't think that's what happened, but it'd be funny.

Web: Hm... Possibly
But, in that case, Max would've found that action N1
That still points to a Max, Jim, EP team
Max's "I didn't kill anyone" is best met by "That doesn't make you Town"

Tric: post my dragon image.
You don't need to kill town to be an SK.