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[Secretdorf]

If I hammer Max, I will be able to avoid the vote gain as it requires 7 or less votes and hammer's at 8. So I will, about day end.

I don't think Jim and Elephant are scum. I don't understand how Max is scum, but he seems an alright choice. If I ever reach 6 votes, I'll kill Imp unless they drop the esteem. With merges in the game, I might die if I get 2 votes. So unless someone has a better idea, I'm not doing anything tonight.

[The Canadian kitten]

Following statement after the line is from NQT and I am posting at this godly time of day when I should be sleeping just because I'm doing stupid things on computer
I, notquitethere, personally attest to the Canadian Kitten's authenticity. He's legit, I promise. I posted a picture of the Spider-Man villain Jack O'Lantern before the game began to set up a softclaim and misdirection for my role even before the game began. That's not something Canadian Kitten would have recognised or have gone back and checked.
Wuba and I have been cooking up some theories. He'll want to share some stuff with you but for my part I wanted to get you all to focus on a few things:
-- We're concerned about a Hector/Imp connection. Was Hector's rationale for acting on Imp N1 ever properly explored?
-- If Jim is legit, then the merger was probably Max but I agree with EP that there is a world where Lenglon could have done it.
-- Don't go after Secretdorf today, most likely he was not my killer
-- The SK vs Town inspects on Hector were also not properly cleared up. Some half-ass suggestions were given.
-- The whole contradiction between Lenglon and BHK and Max has not been resolved to any satisfaction.
To me, being possibly redirected is not a half-assed suggestion, but I guess it is a valid concern.
For the other points, too sleep deprived to really think about.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182211.msg8516634#msg8516634
Link to post about Jack o Lantern. I don't remember ever seeing this tbh

[Imp]

If I hammer Max, I will be able to avoid the vote gain as it requires 7 or less votes and hammer's at 8. So I will, about day end.

So, let's clarify.

If 'you' hammer, or if anyone hammers?  'Cause either way, it's 8.

[Imp]

Following statement after the line is from NQT and I am posting at this godly time of day when I should be sleeping just because I'm doing stupid things on computer
I, notquitethere, personally attest to the Canadian Kitten's authenticity. He's legit, I promise.
-- The SK vs Town inspects on Hector were also not properly cleared up. Some half-ass suggestions were given.

Esteemed notquitethere, would you be interested, willing, and able to participate in helping us all clear this up?

I targeted Esteemed hector13 N4 with basic inspect.  I was not informed anything about anything I have becoming disabled.

I received the town result.  Nothing else appeared to happen to me last night.

I do think it is very unusual that Esteemed The Canadian kitten got a serial killer inspect from that one.  I am not sure how to clear that up.

Through your mouthpiece, you certainly can help guide us.  We have, unfortunately, dead town pros, but for now you can share and add your voice.  Please continue to do so.

I've yet again searched the thread.  The only one of us to ever indicate they were serial killer on inspect was Esteemed TricMagic.  This was said too,

Oops. Looks like I SKslipped.

But only in response to my concerns about behavior and speech, not as a direct statement.

I agree it's an unexplained discrepancy.  But what do we do about it past what we've already tried?

[Jim Groovester]

I return to daily toiling today so I probably won't be around much and will probably miss the deadline.

-- We're concerned about a Hector/Imp connection. Was Hector's rationale for acting on Imp N1 ever properly explored?

This is reasonable, but if it is hector13/Imp, where did Maximum Spin go to push this angle?

Do hector13 and Imp fight like they did on D4 if they're teamed together somehow? I guess an SK team is the only thing that would make sense given the SK inspection from TCk.

-- The SK vs Town inspects on Hector were also not properly cleared up. Some half-ass suggestions were given.
-- The whole contradiction between Lenglon and BHK and Max has not been resolved to any satisfaction.

I know, but there's still pieces of information missing. I think EP and I have come up with some adequate guesses for the information that's available but obviously if all the information to solve these was available then the game would be solved. Maybe the information is available and I just can't remember hard enough.

[Imp]

Was Hector's rationale for acting on Imp N1 ever properly explored?

This is what was said:

Esteemed Imp, consider it the price of my protection. Don’t worry about it, you’ll be immune from kills from the end of the day.

There was another cost to it, but… hopefully it doesn’t have to be revealed. It’s nothing to worry about. Probably. You will find out what that was at the end of the day too, but not in a threatening way, it’s already happened. /ooooo cryptic

I tried to use veiled language to state:

1) I have no price to pay, I don't need to follow this, especially today, though that can change later because anything can change with me, but the price I see is just a cycle, so I can fix that later if that matters.
2) Since I don't have to follow it, I can completely hide that you did this to me, and I'm willing, especially if doing so protects/hides you.
3) Give me more information though, so I actually can feel more sure I want to protect you, because I only have flavor to go on that this is positive for me.

Esteemed Imp… you are correct in your assertions, but it might have wider benefit if you stick to it.

I’ve already claimed it was me anyway, and it’ll be pretty bleedin’ obvious too. I will readily admit that either way it doesn’t affect me a jot.

That mention of 'a wider benefit' was a bit of a shock to me to see mentioned, because I sure didn't mention or imply that except to say

"I laugh at the idea of maddening rules, and it may be a joyous laugh."

But I accepted that as a possible handshake, though clearly it's not, as far as Esteemed hector13 goes - but that's fine, the paper a message is written on doesn't need to understand the message they carry -

And I started following the rule from that point, and I haven't stopped following a rule that I consented to yet.  Clearly I have my own reasons.  Clearly they are connected to my original role.  Clearly I am not agreeing to let that go.  This is no longer between Esteemed hector13 and myself.  The moment I stepped into following that rule, this became as well between myself and Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist.  I already have stated:

I... I... I... claim to worship Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist and while I live, I actually 'deal' with that worthy night and day.

Once I consent to follow a rule in this game, to me it becomes part of my dealings there.  I am not done with that game.

I cannot imaging discussing or explaining that further, because

I do not intend to recognize or respond to further challenge to my decision to uphold my possible link to my deadnamed role.

But I do agree to explain that portion of my original response to Esteemed hector13's imposition upon me, and have above.

Back to what Esteemed Hector13 has stated about why me N1:

My protection wasn’t for N1, it’s… a little more complicated, but you’ll be immune from kills after D2. I know it doesn’t seem that way, but I’d rather not go into more details about it right now.

Actually no, the thing I did wasn’t a protect at all in game terms, I can say that and remain cryptic.

Right…

To be clear, I have no issue with you discussing the Esteemed thing (except in relating what it does, but I won’t hold it against you if you feel the need) but… I suspect there may be other things you have to say that might relate to me, possibly maybe kinda sorta, in a random chance kind of way.

And that's it for D2 that I see.

D3, I was just swapped, so had a lot of confusion, but aware that I got told nothing about what Esteemed hector13 tried to do to me.

For that matter, kills happen pretty late in order of events, right?

Esteemed Webadict, you probably were the redirected target of whatever step 2 of Esteemed hector13's step-stuff.  Did you get any information about this that you think can help us decide this stuff?  I'm not overly concerned myself now because I got that town result on that worthy.  Until then, I was increasingly worried, because I still can't verify anything but step 1 of that process and apparently nobody else can either - except maybe you.  However, they're town, so I'm not that worried.  Except when I think about too-townie Esteemed TricMagic and Esteemed Knightwing64.  But I'm not worried about the town part.

back to D3, this was said:

Esteemed Hector13, to be clear, nothing was revealed to me end of D2.  I also double checked with Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist, in case something had been forgotten, and quoted what you had said in thread.  The reply essentially told me that one didn't believe there was more to notify me about.

Are you interested in clarifying?

Esteemed Imp, It doesn’t bear discussing, mistruths have been spoken, benignly. The immunity was granted, I would implore you not to discuss it further.

And while that bothered me a lot, it's also clearly not part of my changed role, so I can just 'don't worry about it', except... it could be part of the connection to my lost role.  Oh.  Realizing that, I felt better, and have since, making it so much easier to 'don't worry about' anything else.

But when Esteemed hector13 had the weird stuff going on D4, and having already verified Esteemed notquitethere, that led to me choosing to target that one N4.  Because I'm directly safe from whatever they were possibly pulling, but now they're messing with the rest of us, and now I can solve that.

So I did, to the best I can.

[Jim Groovester]

This is reasonable, but if it is hector13/Imp, where did Maximum Spin go to push this angle?

Do hector13 and Imp fight like they did on D4 if they're teamed together somehow? I guess an SK team is the only thing that would make sense given the SK inspection from TCk.

I guess this doesn't require Imp and hector13 to be teamed; Imp could just be making shit up and inadvertently said the wrong result for hector13, which is more plausible.

[Secretdorf]

If I hammer Max, I will be able to avoid the vote gain as it requires 7 or less votes and hammer's at 8. So I will, about day end.

So, let's clarify.

If 'you' hammer, or if anyone hammers?  'Cause either way, it's 8.

If anyone hammers, of course. I can't double-check each of my posts to make sure no weird conclusions can be drawn from what I say.

How does the post-restriction have a meaningful connection to your previous role? I have never witnessed someone having such enthusiasm toward their role, so I can only conclude that you are using this as an excuse. After all, this is a game of deception and deduction. I think if you're mafia or some 3rd party, your strong reaction at losing your own role makes more sense, but it is your refusal to break the restriction that is actually suspicious.

[ToonyMan]

This is reasonable, but if it is hector13/Imp, where did Maximum Spin go to push this angle?

Do hector13 and Imp fight like they did on D4 if they're teamed together somehow? I guess an SK team is the only thing that would make sense given the SK inspection from TCk.

I guess this doesn't require Imp and hector13 to be teamed; Imp could just be making shit up and inadvertently said the wrong result for hector13, which is more plausible.

The Strawberry Surprise.

What does Max think about all of this?

[Imp]

I have never witnessed someone having such enthusiasm toward their role

I can't quote PMs between myself and Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist, but you came close.

[ToonyMan]

I can't hate you for what you're doing Imp if you're scum, but if you're town I'm going to be very upset.

Actually I'm going to be upset either way.

I feel like I'm trying to stop a baby from killing themselves because they don't know any better.

[Elephant Parade]

Secretdorf: If Jim didn't steal your vote, shouldn't you have 6 right now?

I gain a vote upon fulfilling a vote count request and upon the lynch having 7 or less votes on him at day end. That's an auto. If I get 7 votes, temporary or permanent, I die.
I can steal a person's votes for the next day. If that person dies(except via modkill) the next day, the gain is permanent.

And the one-shot. The Demonic Vote-Eating Technique. It's a day ability. I gain a purple vote and whoever I vote in purple in thread is killed after the lynch as am I killed.

Vote Count
------------------------
-> BlackHeartKabal  --5-- Elephant Parade*, The Canadian kitten*, Maximum Spin*, hector13*, Jim Groovester*,
Secretdorf          --4-- BlackHeartKabal*, Lenglon*, notquitethere*, Imp*,
Elephant Parade     --0--
hector13            --0--
Imp                 --0--
Jim Groovester      --0--
Knightwing64        --0--
Lenglon             --0--
Maximum Spin        --0--
notquitethere       --0--
The Canadian kitten --0--
ToonyMan            --0--
No One              --0--

Not Voting          --6-- Secretdorf, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, ToonyMan*,

8 to Hammer. Day ends on December 30, 2023 at 18:00 Central Standard Time (0 hours and 1 minute remaining.)

I didn't steal votes last night. I had 5 at the end of yesterday. If Jim stole one of mine I should have 4.

Deadchat power's a life saver. I can take Max with me today if that's what's wanted. But isn't Max immune to kills or something?

Wanted to get that out of the way first.

I don't have a vengekill. Only the powers that I claimed.

Maybe Jim's lying or his action failed or something. I'll ask Fallacy if this is correct.

Also, Imp, please violate the restriction. Otherwise, I also refuse to use my ability.

Well, did you?

[Elephant Parade]

D'oh, you claimed stealing Knightwing's vote N3. Of course. My bad.

[Imp]

Secretdorf: If Jim didn't steal your vote, shouldn't you have 6 right now?

I had five at start of yesterday. I gained one from the lynch, but I lost the Knightwing one I had stolen, cuz modkill doesn't count. So I had 5 at end of day, Jim stole one, so I should have 4.

[Elephant Parade]

In that case: Secretdorf, I'd like to reiterate my earlier suggestion: you steal a vote, Jim steals your vote, we can co-clear. You're at 5 base votes so it should be safe even if you don't trust me and Jim.