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[Imp]

• Notquitethere tracked me to CM N1 and Toony to CM N3

Another small error, possibly here, just in targeting:

N3. Track/Watched Toony and saw him interact with Imp

[Elephant Parade]

I’d also like to point out Esteemed Lenglon was blocked N4, so couldn’t have killed or redirected or anything.

On the other hand, last night was the first to have no apparent merge. But that is correct and important. At this point, I believe the only people who could have killed last night are Imp, ToonyMan, Maximum Spin if you think his track was free and he doesn't actually have the status effect, The Canadian kitten if Maximum Spin can't confirm he targeted Hector (presumably he can, but as far as I can tell he hasn't?) and Jim Groovester if you aren't masonbuddies with him and think his vote steal is free (it isn't).

I find ToonyMan most plausible of the above.

• Notquitethere tracked me to CM N1 and Toony to CM N3

Another small error, possibly here, just in targeting:

N3. Track/Watched Toony and saw him interact with Imp

Yup, that's a typo.

Maximum Spin, could you confirm that TCk targeted Hector last night?

[Jim Groovester]

I should probably mention that my vote steal has another effect in that it makes my target unable to target me. I don't think this has been relevant given my choices of targets and I don't think it help solves any mysteries. For reference, I targeted sofanthiel (doubled to NQT probably) on N1, sofanthiel on N2, Knightwing64 on N3, and Secretdorf (but probably randomized to NQT) on N4.

Elephant Parade is summarizing a lot of musings and thinkings I have about the game, many of which are in mason chat, so I'll just leave him to state the major conclusions.

hector13 and Max are the only players who can change a player's target if my recollection isn't totally wrong, but hector13's randomize is self confirming because of the Esteemed Hams auto he hands out, and Max only claimed the self bus/protect after I asked him directly about it. Max was unable to use this ability on N4 due to violating the Esteemed Hams post restriction, and therefore could not potentially be responsible for the contradicting inspection results on hector13 via bussing himself with hector13. This is assuming his claim is accurate, and not mostly accurate but carefully constructed to provide himself an alibi for this particular issue.

I think Max is a good choice for elimination today. I don't think the game will end with his elimination though. If the game continues, which I expect it will, then I believe there's probably one more scum and possibly two more scum, and I suspect remaining scum is between Lenglon, ToonyMan, and Crystalizedmire. This is mostly based on feeling and gut check level evaluations of night game inconsistencies and potential resolutions.

I don't think I'm doing too bad but Elephant Parade is definitely being way more detailed about this than I am.

[Elephant Parade]

As a note, this means that if Imp wants to inspect us, they actually would be better off targeting me in case Jim somehow gets redirected/bussed/randomized/Flanderized to them. I first realized the potential for this interaction when Imp questioned me on why they I always asked to be targeted; at the time, I figured it was an unlikely edge case that was outweighed by the potential value of Jim and scum happening to target each other. But Jim getting randomized spooked me.

[ToonyMan]

@Hector:
I'm speculating that Web was superkilled given my bus because I don't believe scum would have tried to kill Imp. I was wondering what would happen if Imp tried to kill Web in this situation but I haven't asked FoU because I haven't really seriously suspected Imp as scum. They'd probably end up killing themselves if I had to guess.

@Elephant Groovester:
I don't believe this game will end if Max is lynched either. Three Mafia and One SK is too few anti-town.

I don't think Lenglon is scum. Although their reads have assumptions I don't understand.

I could see Crystal being scum and trapped in the shadow realm because of Max or something.

I don't think Secretdorf is scum, this is held by the NQT results.

I don't think Canadian Deadcat is scum.

I don't think the Jim/Elephant masons are scum but think Imp should inspect them so we got two cleared slots.

I don't think Max is Mafia but I think they are lying to us and SK.

I agree it's possible Imp is the NQT killer but that completely shatters my ego and the purpose I've held in this game.

[ToonyMan]

Imp could prove they can't kill the following night if they do something really simple, but will they? No. Because fuck you. I'm motherfuckin Imp and I esteem my ham the same way I jam. I got beats so bad you'll want to drain that eggnog. I provide insanely verbose posts that fill the thread, cause I got nothin to do but eat dis toast. That's me, Imp, rebel on the outside town hater on the inside.

[Lenglon]

So I've had it in the back of my head that Crystalized was scummy before being banished, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why. Can anyone remind me WHY we think the person the mafia removed from the game is scum?

[ToonyMan]

The Vanilla Special:
Max is SK
Crystal and Lenglon are Mafia
Everyone else is Town

The Chocolate Supreme:
Max is SK
Elephant and Jim are Pirates
Everyone else is Town

The Strawberry Surprise:
Hector is SK
Imp and Crystal are Pirates
Everyone else is Town

[Imp]

As a note, this means that if Imp wants to inspect us, they actually would be better off targeting me in case Jim somehow gets redirected/bussed/randomized/Flanderized to them. I first realized the potential for this interaction when Imp questioned me on why they I always asked to be targeted; at the time, I figured it was an unlikely edge case that was outweighed by the potential value of Jim and scum happening to target each other. But Jim getting randomized spooked me.

Appreciated.  I'm wary of the chance that you have a deception built into your role capable/intended to fox Esteemed Webadict's expected results; counters to even perfect things seem baked into this incredible and astounding game.

If you two are willing to explore, I conveniently have a role to show and share:

Warehouse 13 (Town)
(Auto) Don’t Worry About It: You cannot gain status conditions, change alignment, join any private chats, have your action targets changed, gain abilities, lose abilities, or have abilities modified. If you successfully alignment inspect someone, your result cannot be distorted from reality. The sole exception to these conditions is that Contractual Niceness can Disable this ability.
(Auto) Contractual Niceness: You are required to maintain a calm and kind demeanor during the Day and in private chats. If you violate this condition, Don’t Worry About It will be Disabled until you follow this condition for a full Day. You are encouraged to take breaks from the game whenever you feel like you need to.
(Night) Basic Inspect [target]: You learn your target’s alignment.
(1-Shot, Night) Simplify [target]: Your target’s role loses all abilities.

if you people with the pipeline to Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist are willing to explore those what-ifs, and if you think revelation is useful, I'd like knowing, and expect you to conceal or even mislead if you think that serves you best.  Exact words often matter with the questions, and I don't know your exact words, but mine were on display, at least some to some, from the moment the first scumteams existing at start of play got to 'open their eyes' as it were, and now I have all these to fail to obscure as well.

I'm interested in any answers, and will add it to the pile of everything else I'm trying to keep track of.

The 'most fun' inspection's probably when I go for Esteemed The Canadian kitten, if we have to go that far, as that one kills me on a target back to me.

Not sure which would win, between that described 'can't target if vote stole' and 'cannot have your action targets changed', but that's something to consider if it might actually throw me into a new target, despite other factors.

Imp could prove they can't kill the following night if they do something really simple, but will they? No. Because fuck you. I'm motherfuckin Imp and I esteem my ham the same way I jam. I got beats so bad you'll want to drain that eggnog. I provide insanely verbose posts that fill the thread, cause I got nothin to do but eat dis toast. That's me, Imp, rebel on the outside town hater on the inside.

Though, depending on the type of death, and if I had Esteemed ToonyMan's help at the time, I might survive even that and not even know I nearly didn't, since the protections of my pre-deceasor also blind me to some extent.  Was pretty reassuring to see that status appear and disappear, N1.

Esteemed ToonyMan, who takes with one hand, to give back again, to take again, and give back again, and whom seems utterly entwined with me this game -

You have one additional huge clue as to my nature - who I am in the dark, before you took even my 'dark' away from me, and clothed me in the skin of another player's dream.

Sadly, it comes from one we can barely evaluate.  But this is what I decided to do, when I had the power to try to do anything... after understanding that by the results of my D1 safer experiments:

By the way, Esteemed EuchreJack apparently used the protect power on either Esteemed Lenglon or me n2, that's why I wanted Esteemed The Canadian kitten to check up on that.

That might not have anything to do with me or my efforts.  But to me that looks purest town and power shared with as many possible and free choice and much of goodness and delight.

[ToonyMan]

So I've had it in the back of my head that Crystalized was scummy before being banished, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why. Can anyone remind me WHY we think the person the mafia removed from the game is scum?

I have no strong feelings about Crystal. I think my feelings were indifferent at best on D1 (or D2?), but they've spent so much of the game out of play that it's not clear. Knightwing was Town at least. Something I was pretty confident about after their Webadict inspect outburst.

[Imp]

So I've had it in the back of my head that Crystalized was scummy before being banished, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why. Can anyone remind me WHY we think the person the mafia removed from the game is scum?

I did because of some reactions to words.  I thought that one marked Esteemed Maximum Spin for suggesting straight out the gate that I was a 'badguy' ... which is a key part of the innate of mine that got shared to the existing-at-start-of-play scumteams.

Now that I know a bit more about Esteemed Maximum Spin's flavor abilities, I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't expressly told, but he was, that exact ability and that it was mine (Surprise?  No.  One should not be surprised in -this- of all games.  The term is delight.  I got to dance in that level of danger, and play with that level of power, for two entire cycles, oh wow).  But Esteemed CrystalizedMire had a very interesting reaction, one I'd expect from members of existing scum teams (thus, informed).

I think Imp is a badguy.

Well, I can't decide between voting sofanthiel, Euchre Jack or Maximum Spin at the time but Maximum Spin trying to discredit Imp is pretty scummy.

Was sofanthiel trying to discredit me by voting me earlier? Was Lenglon trying to discredit Jim?

I can't believe I genuinely thought that maximum spin was being genuine when he said that they believe that imp is mafia. Oh well, I guess claiming protector and miller is still a little suspicious

Given that 'badguy' is nearly part of that innate and I'd said too much, I challenged them both about it.  Esteemed CrystalizedMire's answers were especially poor in my opinion.  Esteemed Maximum Spin's answers were adequate, but the level between them, of reaction to those words and me.  Looks pretty wrong, pretty informed to me, especially on Esteemed CrystalizedMire's part.

You can see similar in how 'scared' Esteemed BlackHeartKabal was of me D3, how sure I knew all about scum Esteemed sofanthiel from D1...

You had good knowledge of the alignments in play due to your role, and you yourself admitted to me that you had an agenda are mental the highlights when I think of you. You thunderdomed hard with Jack, and Jack's... response tilted things against him, which put Jack in the spotlight for most of that time. There were things with you that had me ticking like a metronome between "Imp is a cornerstone of the Town and probably trustworthy" and "This is the exact sort of person that's going to kill everyone else when we hit sub-seven players". You pick up on Sofanthiel before most of the others for being too cagey and not giving as much as they wanted to grab, but you urge the SK to target pirates, but you act independently and focus on investigation, but you admit to me you have an agenda when I tell you I suspect you of being a third party.

In terms of "one hell of a bus being memorable and detailed", what's not obvious? It would be one hell of a bus if you two were scum because, if you both are, then that means that, by the first day, you were trying to get them killed for credibility, which would be a ruthless and very high risk, high reward play. I don't think that's the case now, though.

Part of why I targeted Esteemed hector13 for inspect.  One of the players, like Esteemed BlackHeartKabal, that targeted me from D1 (though Esteemed BlackheartKabal didn't admit it until D3) and was really focused on me.  Not necessarily scummy, but existing-at-the-start-scumteams were told to come get me at start of play for a prize.

[Elephant Parade]

Imp: I am not aware of anything I, Jim, or any other player has that could give you false results. My auto causes everyone I share a groupchat with to inspect as Mafia. That's it.

I don't see the point in playing 20 Questions with Fallacy in Masonchat when the role has flipped and we could just ask in the thread. I can't immediately think of any questions to ask because "your result cannot be distorted from reality" is a clear categorical rejection of all forms of deceit. I guess someone could be inspected and then converted, possibly in the same night, but I don't think that's relevant here. I guess you could ask "could there be a super godfather with even higher priority than the super inspect" but that would be extremely silly.

[Imp]

Imp: I am not aware of anything I, Jim, or any other player has that could give you false results. My auto causes everyone I share a groupchat with to inspect as Mafia. That's it.

I don't see the point in playing 20 Questions with Fallacy in Masonchat when the role has flipped and we could just ask in the thread. I can't immediately think of any questions to ask because "your result cannot be distorted from reality" is a clear categorical rejection of all forms of deceit. I guess someone could be inspected and then converted, possibly in the same night, but I don't think that's relevant here. I guess you could ask "could there be a super godfather with even higher priority than the super inspect" but that would be extremely silly.

Sounds good, thanks.

[Jim Groovester]

So I've had it in the back of my head that Crystalized was scummy before being banished, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why. Can anyone remind me WHY we think the person the mafia removed from the game is scum?

My read on Crystalizedmire was obvscum or Knightwing64esque naievete but it's been forever ago since Crystalizedmire was actually here to play the game and I'm not going to reread the game to refresh my read.

I'm guessing that Crystalizedmire's banishment (first and second) was a product of coordination rather than lucky night actions. I also don't know why any malicious player would want to keep town Crystalizedmire out of this game this long, since I think town Crystalizedmire wouldn't be the hardest mislynch to sell and Crystalizedmire doesn't come across as a power player with a dangerous role for scum.

[Imp]

So I've had it in the back of my head that Crystalized was scummy before being banished, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why. Can anyone remind me WHY we think the person the mafia removed from the game is scum?

Oh!

And I guess that the claim Esteemed Jim Groovester made of the infested gun N2 came from Esteemed CrystalizedMire's work.  I've been expecting him to be shooting ant-bullets ever since, but that seems not to be happening, and he hasn't reported the gun completely devoured (perhaps the carpenter ants need a second visit to finish the meal).

But given what I was at start of play, a player expressly able to target and destroy items, ideally specific ones, makes excellent sense.  Of note, I could take items, but not destroy them.  NAI, of course.  Scum Esteemed sofanthiel could have saved my original role from the swap even, I think.  Never expected to see 'potential savior' in a scum flip.