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[Imp]

Imp knows Lenglon targeted me on N2. Lenglon got the result "not in group chat" on N2.

N2 got really crazy for me.

I have no understanding, order of actions, if I'd be redirected or not.  I do know I targeted Esteemed Toonyman and got results on that, of two visitors.  And I know you have two claimed visitors.  But Esteemed hector13 hit me with something that may include a redirect, not sure about the N2 step?  And there's other unclaimed redirectors.

Really sure someone was visited by 2 people on N2, saw that happen at least.

[hector13]

All my action on N2 would have done is upgrade the post restriction, nothing else.

[hector13]

Well, it would’ve given you the ability to grant the post restriction too, but other than that, no redirections or randomizing or bussing or anything like that.

[hector13]

Regardless, I know it didn’t hit you anyway, so it’s all moot.

[Imp]

But the fact the entire town has completely ignored your vendetta against Esteemed Secretdorf does not mean you want to prove you’re right?

Being able to clear (or condemn) the two masons by targeting them is worth less than clearing up uncertainty around me?

I already said I expected Esteemed Secretdorf would have a vig kill last night.

I called for that and was told I was heard by someone who claims they can do that, D4.

You, Esteemed hector13, went for me, made a ton of claims, none of which ended up confirmed, then went for Esteemed Jim Groovester but ended up on Esteemed Maximum Spin, who seemed genuinely concerned.

I genuinely wanted to know what you were doing, and your alignment's good enough for me.  I would have been unsurprised to see any alignment from you, for you to be a two-step failed killer or anything else.

All my action on N2 would have done is upgrade the post restriction, nothing else.

Well, it would’ve given you the ability to grant the post restriction too, but other than that, no redirections or randomizing or bussing or anything like that.

Yep, at the time I knew only your claims, which kept changing, were vague, and could be nefarious.  That was my read of you, and I was very open about it, getting opener as the inconsistencies piled up.  By D4, I was pretty darn open about my concern.

[ToonyMan]

Tbh I should not have been the one to be inspected last night, and it’s pretty obvious, aside from my N2, that I’m at minimum not mafia.

I was really hoping Imp would inspect Elephant or Jim last night, but I did have you as possible Mafia suspect so it still helps.

I'm still willing to thunderdome Max over this today. I don't feel like I should have been alive this long since I've spent almost every night protecting a supercop so I can understand why people might find that suspicious.

Even if Elephant/Jim are scum they would really prefer to remove a possible SK today as opposed to letting them live into another night.

PPE:

I have no understanding, order of actions, if I'd be redirected or not.  I do know I targeted Esteemed Toonyman and got results on that, of two visitors.  And I know you have two claimed visitors.  But Esteemed hector13 hit me with something that may include a redirect, not sure about the N2 step?  And there's other unclaimed redirectors.

Really sure someone was visited by 2 people on N2, saw that happen at least.

It was most likely me, but it's true that it could have been anyone that was visited by two people, not me being visited by you and Lenglon.

[Imp]

Tbh I should not have been the one to be inspected last night, and it’s pretty obvious, aside from my N2, that I’m at minimum not mafia.

I was really hoping Imp would inspect Elephant or Jim last night, but I did have you as possible Mafia suspect so it still helps.

How do you think today would go if that happened, and with the SK inspect result reported on Esteemed Hector13, and everything else played out the same?  Let's say, "the duo are town" - because that may not be so, even though I think it's really likely.

How do you think today would be different?  Who's the likely elimination targets today, had I gotten a town result for the masons?

[ToonyMan]

Also, if you Imp were redirected on N2 it's even less likely that Lenglon was redirected off of me the same night.

[Imp]

'Cause I think most of us would quickly accept that result from Esteemed The Canadian kitten, just like most of us quickly accepted the result of town from that one upon Esteemed Secretdorf, and I think we'd probably be lynching town today.

We might still do so, but at least we're hopefully more likely to have a better chance to lynch anti-town, since Esteemed hector13 is in fact town no matter what other inspection result was gained.

[ToonyMan]

Tbh I should not have been the one to be inspected last night, and it’s pretty obvious, aside from my N2, that I’m at minimum not mafia.

I was really hoping Imp would inspect Elephant or Jim last night, but I did have you as possible Mafia suspect so it still helps.

How do you think today would go if that happened, and with the SK inspect result reported on Esteemed Hector13, and everything else played out the same?  Let's say, "the duo are town" - because that may not be so, even though I think it's really likely.

How do you think today would be different?  Who's the likely elimination targets today, had I gotten a town result for the masons?

You're right, if you got "Town" on Elephant and Jim it would have been worse for Hector.

It would probably be between Secretdorf/Hector as lynch candidates most likely, maybe Max. I expect Secretdorf to be the lynch because of their amount of votes (Jim would be town here so we know we can trust them with votes) and Secretdorf wouldn't have an alibi for the kill.

[Jim Groovester]

Well Imp, you blew it. Here's the real reason. You know, I haven't posted a readslist this entire game thus far. I should change that shouldn't I?

Jim and EP are pirate, not mafia, but not masons and still need to die. Jim's the redirector of the pair.  There's no way there's two different mason-miller teams, we don't get to have both Jack's and Jim and EP's as real. They were slow to explain things yesterday to avoid self-incriminating, and redirected CK to Max as a proxy to check Max without putting themselves at risk of detection, having suspected that Max might be SK but not having confirmation.
Toony, Hector, CK, and dorf are town, and are honest in their claims.
Max is SK (the necromancer) and got caught up having fun performing a deduction spiral and forgot what their own wincon is.
Crystal is pirate with Jim and EP, and probably really annoyed at being kept out of the game by Max.
Imp is last maf, the merger, having stayed off the BHK wagon, stayed off the Egan wagon, and stayed off the sofanthiel wagon.
They are refusing to break the post restriction in order to retain their factionkill.

Oh, and yesterday I was redirected to someone Jim/EP wanted inspected for them because they're high-risk, namely secretdorf. secret was merged with BHK by Imp for similar reasons.

This is kind of hard to respond to since a lot of it relies on supposition and speculation that isn't really based off of anything.

I'd say it's unlikely for me and Elephant Parade to be a pirate team since we inspect as mafia, and if we didn't kill EuchreJack he and ToonyMan could have made five town players inspect as Pirates, at which point there would be more Pirates millers than actual Pirates which I guess is possible but feels kind of strange. I don't think Crystalizedmire makes a good teammate for a potential Jim/Elephant Parade scum team since I really want to lynch Crystalizedmire if they're ever not banished.

Jack's ability was a neighborizer, and not a masonizer, so there would be two miller group chats, but not two miller mason groups like you're suggesting, which is less pedantic of you than I usually expect.

And you know, maybe FallacyofUrist didn't want your group chat inspect to be wholly infallible by having it only work on scum, and so having a neighbor group and a mason group isn't so unreasonable to expect from that perspective.

Also, scum team EP/Jim/CM isn't responsible for NQT's death because EP and I have provable actions and CM has been banished, so unless you suspect double actors, then us doing the kill doesn't work out.

Also, reading ToonyMan as town and his claims as accurate, but arguing that Imp retained some weird mafia powers that ToonyMan's role swap wouldn't have eliminated is certainly possible, but seems like a stretch.

So overall, wildly speculative/10.

dorf: DO NOT make any suicide plays, we don't have enough town votes to retain majority if you are dead. You are our counter to Jim, and Jim's vote-stealing will enable him to win on the spot if you kill yourself.

I can't accumulate votes like Secretdorf can.

lol

I am surprised about Jim and EP. But when that I actually think about it, there is a moderate probability it's true. The bomber EP is a greater threat probably. But why were they asking Imp to inspect them?

Because we're actually masons and the infallible, unredirectable inspect Imp has would confirm two players for the price of one.

Is Imp mafia?

Probably not. Imp not choosing to solve your slot at some point bugs me and refusing to break the post restriction also bugs me. Alone, it's whatever, but together, it's suspect.

I think this obsessive behavior regarding you inflicts town players, particularly inexperienced ones, more often than scum, and that's mostly what I see with Imp. At least, I hope this isn't being done knowingly and intentionally because that would be rude.

I already said I expected Esteemed Secretdorf would have a vig kill last night.

I called for that and was told I was heard by someone who claims they can do that, D4.

who said this



Lenglon, what other things can you purchase with the currency you accumulate?

Max, what's the nature of you being normally untargetable? Are you passively bussing yourself with people?

[ToonyMan]

I think this is a pretty good reason not to suspect Imp to be with Jim/Elephant:

Imp could have simply lied about last night and said they got a "Town" result on one of Jim/Elephant which would essentially cinch the victory for them. I think that's another good enough reason to trust Imp as Town...ignoring the hard road choices they have willingly made.

In other words, it's unlikely Imp is Mafia and it's unlikely Imp is Pirate. They're not scum.

[Imp]

And despite having seen townflips like Esteemed Knightwing64... wow that.  I still prefer to see every possible town live.

I do not think us taking Esteemed hector13 out today, probably with even less discussion than now, would help town.

I already said I expected Esteemed Secretdorf would have a vig kill last night.

I called for that and was told I was heard by someone who claims they can do that, D4.

who said this

@Imp:
Dude I get it. I'll kill Secretdorf if I have to, okay?

[Jim Groovester]

I suppose ToonyMan did say that but I did not take away from that statement alone that that's something he would definitely do.

blah blah declaring that you will definitely kill a player in a game with busses and redirects and mergings all of them unclaimed is silly blah blah blah blah blah

[Imp]

I suppose ToonyMan did say that but I did not take away from that statement alone that that's something he would definitely do.

blah blah declaring that you will definitely kill a player in a game with busses and redirects and mergings all of them unclaimed is silly blah blah blah blah blah

Definitely do - nope, me either.  I did not read that as a 'definitely will'.

Somehow he keeps not getting redirected off of defending my life each night, or if he is, somehow I'm still not dying. That N2 swap certainly didn't redirect either.

This is what we have to deal with.