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[Jim Groovester]

If I missed 150 posts of people egging Imp on into breaking an imaginary post restriction,

[Imp]

By my calculation, Esteemed Secretdorf reaches 7 votes at end of day, and the only possible prevention is the elimination, used either to:

1) eliminate Esteemed Secretdorf, which may released a vengekill, but the first claim was made in clear anger, to target me or Esteemed BlackHeartKabal, when I was pushing, but I'm solid town (I think to most of you?  Supercop driving hard on kill this person).  So claim to vengekill either me or the probable scum covers all bases/appeases most of us, we're polar opposites.

2) We could hammer someone else, with 8 votes, no idea if some of them are Esteemed Secretdorf's, but Esteemed Secretdorf initially asked for no more than 7 voters, for reasons that would soon be apparent.  that suggests we need no more than one of Esteemed Secretdorf's votes for that hammer to avoid the 7 voters issue.

Esteemed Secretdorf currently has 5 votes showing.  Esteemed Jim Groovester likely took one, that goes back - end of day, right?  Depending on how we eliminate someone, Esteemed Secretdorf gets another.

There's nobody missing a vote, so... Hey, deadchat folks.  Did Esteemed notquitethere get a vote stolen before death?  Please try not to cause a headache when you pass this message through our awesome Esteemed The Canadian kitten medium if you're willing to, but that tells us a bit more.  Any other results or info Esteemed notquitethere would like to pass back to us?  Even flavor about the kill might help.  Any other non-scum dead folk wanna tell us useful stuff?  Thank you, twinsie Esteemed Webadict, for all the advice and words.

The endgame clearly super-matters for Esteemed Secretdorf... the end game of the final votes to get, and how they're gained.

I don't think Esteemed Secretdorf wanted to be lynched yesterday.

Is this one of those things where we have to kill the esteemed Secretdorf so the esteemed everyone else can move on?

It's sort of come to this. So I'll claim this: If I get 7 votes, my cultivation becomes unbalanced and I die. Does that help?

@Toonyman: Can you still do the roleswap?

SecretDorf: Are you willing to not steal another vote for this night?

Yeah, I'm not going to. If I accidently get 2, I'm dead.

Imp, I'm very annoyed at this point, and I am also fucking tired of defending myself. This bandwagon is reminding me of your attitude towards Tricmagic in the AFM game, where you kept saying Tric wasn't town cuz he wasn't scumhunting, but in the end you were scum. In that game too, you made so much effort at scumhunting and making game winning plans, that I was completely convinced you were town. I fear the same might be the case here.

I have a vengekill. If I'm lynched I'm going to use it on you or BHK.

This is fucking dumb.

Okay, to be clear, Secretdorf will definitely have another vote tomorrow (unless Jim steals it) and will almost certainly have the majority of votes tomorrow.

Honestly. Let's just.

Secretdorf, please give me two vote counts to resolve this once and for all.

Only once per day. And I'm not interested in more votes.

Total behavior change.  This being, the Esteemed Secretdorf, does not want to be eliminated.

Let's eliminated 'em.

Even after they say this:

I have a vengekill. If I'm lynched I'm going to use it on you or BHK.

Triggers on death or lynch or kill?

Lynch.

I have a vengekill. If I'm lynched I'm going to use it on you or BHK.

I do regret your stress levels.

I'm curious.  Why Esteemed BlackHeartKabal as your stated alternate target?

I don't trust the roleblock and Death mark to be powers a townie would have. And Lenglon seems town to me. I don't see why BHK would mark Lenglon. Besides I think most other players are town. BHK and Crystallized seem likely scum to me.

I think I should explain my oneshot. It isn't really a vengekill. It's a day ability. I die and a person that I choose is killed at the end of the day.

And then they poof for the rest of the day.  Man, your weird 'honor', Esteemed Toonyman, about why you will or won't eliminate, and all the rest.  Sure hope you're healthy and well and in your right mind.

But anyway.

This player, Esteemed Secretdorf, doesn't wanna be eliminated.  I think that's a reasonably safe removal mechanism.

[hector13]

Well, it’d be nice if they showed up and claimed before we make a decision on them.

[Imp]

Well, it’d be nice if they showed up and claimed before we make a decision on them.

Sure.  Would have been great if Esteemed Egan_BW had too.  Players don't always do that, and it's interesting why/why not.

[Lenglon]

Happy new year!

will hunt scum in the morning.

[Imp]

Happy new year!

Yeah, it's interesting, we don't really know if there's any flavor or message with the vote loss this game.

Esteemed sofanthiel, Esteemed notquitethere, Esteemed Knightwing64, and perhaps Esteemed Secretdorf are the players that lost votes this game, and while Esteemed notquitethere did bother to confirm they regained their vote, I don't see any mention of if there's flavor or just 'check the start of day post to see if you even have a vote' to inform.

So very interested if Esteemed notquitethere cares to inform us about that, in case it's useful.

[Elephant Parade]

webadict: Sorry if you've already answered this, but what did you do N2?

[Imp]

Oh, doh.

Umm... Esteemed Maximum Spin, it appears that you have claimed that you target up to two people and see who does what to those folks, getting the ability name and/or (probably and) some flavor info.

I note you learned a ton of really intricate stuff about Esteemed Knightwing64 because (It seems you claim so) that one targeted Esteemed Webadict and announced they did so, and the purpose, which allowed you to connect everything together.  You sure gave us a lot of nice warnings about that one, all confirmable even if not 100% fully interpreted exactly now that we've seen the roleflip - you were impressively close and hey, 'it's real' even if the mechanics aren't fully there to support it all.  Danger to self and others indeed.

So... um.  y'Know the stuff you know about Esteemed The Canadian kitten because you targeted their target, I think.  Either last night, or some earlier night.

By some miracle was it last night, so you know one of two people (is it always 2 you target for your sample of our soup?) that had to be the actual person Esteemed The Canadian kitten was targetting?

Or were you just drawing from your deep well of prior knowledge?

[The Canadian kitten]

webadict: Sorry if you've already answered this, but what did you do N2?

They investigated NQT
I really want for Dorf and Max to show up and claim something.
NQT will probs show up during night time.

Also message for imp: be more trusting and please stop being paranoid. Why do you not trust hector when you inspected them as town?

[Elephant Parade]

Hey TCk, mind using exact quotes since that's apparently allowed? They're harder to edit or forge, not that I think you're doing that.

[Imp]

Also message for imp: be more trusting and please stop being paranoid. Why do you not trust hector when you inspected them as town?

Yeah.  Esteemed Webadict, what is that even referencing, this?

Right I’m having thoughts and some are pretty bad.

I initially thought Esteemed Imp was using dead players abilities to frame me but that doesn’t work because Esteemed Egan_BW can’t frame people as SK.

Can you explain more about how/why I would do that, given I declare you town today?

I'm not trying to shut you down, and I'm not scared of you or your ideas.  You're town.  But what are you seeing?

I don't get how you read that from this or anything else.  I think Esteemed hector13 is scared and/or confused.  I'm glad to see what he's seeing and help him get the info he needs to clear that up.

Quotes, since allowed, probably are awesome if you choose, Esteemed The Canadian kitten.

[hector13]

I was worried you and Esteemed The Canadian kitten were conspiring and figured that with the dead using their abilities that was you, but the ability Esteemed Egan_BW had doesn’t work like that, so yeah.

Still not entirely convinced Esteemed The Canadian kitten is telling the truth…

[Elephant Parade]

The Canadian kitten: Weird question, but have you mostly been posting from computer or phone today?

[Jim Groovester]

FallacyofUrist, are banished players able to affect the game in any capacity?

Under normal circumstances, no. An ability would have to specifically mention it in order for it to affect banished players or be used by banished players.

Also, FallacyofUrist, do banished players count for win condition evaluation? I.E., if a player is scum and they banish themselves, does the town still have to eliminate that player to win?

Lenglon did not target Jim and BlackHeart on N3 because both players are in groupchats, not just one. It was some other combination.

Yes, that's the logical interpretation. Unfortunately, if not Esteemed Jim Groovester, I don't know who or why.

It was Lenglon's action but it was mostly your deductions that got to me and BHK as the true targets of Lenglon's action, and the result was ultimately incorrect, so somebody has to square up how that happened, and since it was mostly your deductions, it might as well be you.

I've pulled the 'man i have no idea how that happened' defense before in a BYOR (and won with it even though most of dead chat saw through it), so I probably don't accept the shrugs of confusion from you and Lenglon on this.

Also webadict thinks you're responsible for the action duplication which I think isn't totally unreasonable.

Yes, I'm aware you've claimed masons with Esteemed Jim Groovester, but BYOR 16.

I asked for a terribly ironic role so I'm pretty sure miller masons is FallacyofUrist fulfilling my request.

blah blah I'm not an adventurous scum player normally blah blah

ALSO, there's only been one set of mason claims so far in this game, UNLIKE BYOR 16 where there were two.

Honestly, Esteemed Elephant Parade, would you be willing to claim the circumstances in which your bombs go off?
You've been very helpful, but, just being rational, if there's an actual serial killer lurking, I... would tend to suspect the guy putting bombs on everyone first.

Yes, I'm aware you've claimed masons with Esteemed Jim Groovester, but BYOR 16.

This is a completely reasonable request, but I still don't think claiming the condition would help town.

Knowing the condition I agree with my mason partner on this.

And of those, TM and SD have been inspected as NOT IN GROUPCHAT and town, respectively. I currently think The Canadian kitten is the most likely player to have performed the nightkill, but I'm having a hard time squaring that with their bizarre claim today. Why would scum!TCk claim to have inspected Hector as a miller after Imp announced having inspected them as town?

Given the timing of the claims (within two minutes of each other) and the start of the day (within five minutes) I see this as The Canadian kitten reporting a genuine role result and not going full speed with a fake SK result. 76 seconds is enough time to pull back on a fake claim if it's not going to work out, unless The Canadian kitten is an IRON SCUM player and follows through with gambits planned during the night phase regardless of information coming out to the contrary.

Seeing as how The Canadian kitten has decided to be a dead chat mouth piece, I don't see TCk being an IRON SCUM player as too terribly likely.

I don’t think the masons are aligned with Esteemed Secretdorf if they’re all scum, else I’ll be having words with Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist post-game.

What teams make sense if there are an entire other scum team?

Team lurker Secretdorf/The Canadian kitten/Crystalizedmire

Team skill ToonyMan/Lenglon/?

Those are the only ones I can think of. I guess team irony Jim/Elephant Parade/? if you suspect the mason claims, which, you know, fair enough, but also, bite me.

Another ability of mine since I evolved is that I have free access to dead chat. Sofa only started answering questions once BHK got lynched, and they both confirmed that they and egan were in the same team together and that they think there should be a second scum team
They also claim that the Web was not targeted by any of their scum team.
Additonally Sofa is adamant that Imp is part of another scum team

Take any of the statments claimed by dead scum with a grain of salt. I can't verify or have gained more info since some people are actually missing from dead chat/ not in server

Do the dead scum in dead chat think there is a second scum team, or do they know there is a second scum team?

Not that I'm going to trust the word of dead scum, but it's worth asking.

This is 100% deadchat webadict.

What does deadadict think about Crystalizedmire? Also how many scum does webadict think there are if a second team is unlikely?

I now only exist as a puppet to Web's little spirit.

I'm not really satisfied with you just being a dead chat megaphone, so I demand to know what your opinions are of things, without dead chat's influence.

If I missed 150 posts of people egging Imp on into breaking an imaginary post restriction,

Imp, just quit being a fucking goober, and break your post restriction.

Your old role is DEAD

There's no reason to be attached to your DEAD role because YOU'RE NEVER GETTING IT BACK

It's DEAD

DEAD AND GONE

DEE EEE DEE DEAD

Accept it and move on with your life.

It's kind of FUCKING WEIRD to get SO ATTACHED to a role in a role madness game like a BYOR.

You can literally stop being a FUCKING GOOBER right now.

Do you want to be a FUCKING GOOBER for the rest of your life? Because you are on pace to being a FUCKING GOOOBER for the rest of your life at this pace.

Seriously what the FUCKING GOOOBER

Think the elimination could do that?

Why are you thumbs up about them being wiped and not thumbs up about them being eliminated?

So now that I am caught up on the thread,

I generally like Secretdorf whenever he posts, but I also acknowledge he really doesn't post that frequently.

That said, everything I said before I caught up with the thread still applies because there wasn't some earth shattering revelation from Secretdorf or about him in my absence. The number of votes is an asset for whatever team he is on, and therefore if he is town it would be a shame to eliminate him and his stockpile of votes. However, him being scum or a hostile third party is troubling, but given his previous claims regarding the matter, seven is the magic number of votes before bad stuff happens to him (if his claims are accurate) or surrounding him (if he's fibbing key parts of his claim) and therefore wiping his role would mitigate the potentially most deleterious effects of his role if he's not super willing to play ball with his own self elimination.

I don't think a Secretdorf elimination solves a lot of the game, since he can provably steal votes, so I think I'd prefer someone more informative as the lynch for Day 5, and also, I am incredibly aggravated by you and your continued obsession with Secretdorf. Imp, I see myself in you, when I played in the very first Beginner's Mafia of this board, and I gave webadict hell for, I don't even really remember, because I somehow convinced myself that he was scum and would not see anything else. Ultimately my interpretation of that game proved to be incredibly inaccurate, but I had to die and the game had to end before I could see how wrong I actually was. So I understand quite well the desire to be right, but I also strongly feel that your desire to be right will come at the expense of you actually being right.

So I pose to you, does your targeting of Secretdorf truly come from a place of you suspecting him of being an obstacle to your win condition, or does it come from a place of you wanting to prove that your instincts and judgment are correct? If you admit to the latter, I will not mock you for it (this is a lie), but it would be a valuable step in your growth as a mafia player on this board. Eating shit for being wrong is not something necessarily bad or wrong or unhelpful or embarrassing when it comes to playing mafia. This very game, you saw ToonyMan, also a veteran of the very first Beginner's Mafia of this board, eat shit for being wrong about EuchreJack (I would have also eaten shit for being wrong about EuchreJack if I had agreed to some condition on his alignment flip), and ToonyMan's standing on this board as a crafty, detailed, and cunning player has not been reduced as a result of it.

I don't expect that you will have enough honesty with your self introspection to answer that 'I am obsessed with Secretdorf', but once the game is over, please acknowledge that there were players who understood you that you ignored.

[FallacyofUrist]

Also, FallacyofUrist, do banished players count for win condition evaluation? I.E., if a player is scum and they banish themselves, does the town still have to eliminate that player to win?

Banished players are relevant to win conditions only as long as the game is not in end-state.

If all other anti-town players are dead, but an anti-town player is still banished, then unless that anti-town player is unbanished in the same phase as the end state was reached, the Town will win.