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[Elephant Parade]

@Elephant:
I also find Webadict's death very strange on N2, because either scum tried to kill Imp on N2 (which doesn't make any sense because Imp would have been kill-immune if you believe Hector) or more realistically they somehow bypassed my bus to kill Webadict regardless, which is worrying. I'm also a little perplexed why I didn't die last night since it was pretty obvious I was going to protect the super inspect cop. Did they try to kill Imp anyway or what?

Possibly. Regarding N2, the possibility that immediately comes to mind is that Hector is scum and his NK bypasses the immunity he grants. Alternatively, scum targeted Imp because they are silly noobs.

The SK accusation is, with utmost sincerity, flattering. Following TricMagic's flip, I don't think an SK cult would exist with two SKs (counting TricMagic as one, since, well, look at their role).

I guess you could also have been redirected, BHK, but then who has the mark? Crystallizedmire? Scum? Crystallizedmire, who is scum?

If I was redirected, the redirector would have the mark.

Maybe the redirector is dead, too.

(...)

Sigh. I am decidedly town, and as stated above, I can't envision room for an SK. This is a mislynch which I would consider dumb if not for how confusing the whole situation is, when we have better  candidates. The entire game has had some flavour of night action mischief, why do you think I'm involved when I explicitly tried to stay out of all of it after seeing the writing on the wall? The most I can be faulted is being secretive to try and forward my gameplan for the town's sake.

Do you truly think that I'm an SK that gets roleblocked on being visited? An SK with the brilliant gameplan of marking all the peripheral players so that I could try to mark one confirmed town and die? Is this your accusation? If so, I think I know how Jack feels.

(...)

For TricMagic to become an SK, he would have had to use Noxious Neurotoxin Breath to apply Fallout Fumes to two players, then successfully use Feverous Fang Bite to kill both of those players in a row without being blocked/redirected/wrong about who NNB hit/having used NNB on one of multiple status-immune players/having Fallout Fumes cleansed by whoever it was who claimed status cleansing/having his target protected. Tric turning into a serial killer is an improbable edge case that doesn't preclude another SK being in the game. I do agree that it's weird to have SK-Allies in a game with more than one potential SK, but I'm pretty sure it's been done before.

Yes, I do think you could be an SK who gets blocked upon being visited because you deathmark anyone who visits you. Maybe if you die with every living player deathmarked, you kill them all and win, like a suicide arsonist. This is speculative, I know, but not particularly implausible.

[Elephant Parade]

Take a deep breath, my play has been fine. I literally don't know what "done literally nothing with his conftown status" is meant to mean. I random voted Elephant Parade at the start of the game and his trunk has been in a twist about me ever since. It's just a misplaced feeling magnified by a shed load of confirmation bias.

To clarify my views:

1. Jim could be scum and I can see the argument for hitting between Jim and BHK if we follow Max's reasoning

2. Most of today I've been cagey about Secretdorf. Fallacy putting in an unstoppable hammer machine would be a bleak end to the game that doesn't strike me as entirely impossible

3. Knightwing has done nothing to justify living and getting rid of all the most secretive unhelpful players seems like a reasonable strategy

4. CrystalMire is probably scum and we might be fighting over non-mafia today because of it

5. BHK and Elephant Parade both fit a serial killer profile, though EP has been a lot more towny in game-play

Overall I like Imp most of all, Max, EP, Jim-ish. Toony I felt off with earlier but has been fine. I liked Lenglon D1 but haven't felt as sure in recent days. BHK, Knightwing and Secretdorf are all a bit dodgy and Canadian Kitten has slipped so far under the radar that I wouldn't be surprised if he's been up to no good.

For what it's worth, I assign random votes approximately zero weight. I don't even use them.

[FallacyofUrist]

Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist, what is the maximum number of Serial Killers that potentially could be in this game at start, and if that number could be greater than one, please could they both win together or would they need to somehow eliminate the other to win?

I don't have a specific maximum number, but more than one would be a valid setup choice. Webadict ran a setup with 5 Serial Killers and no Mafia a while ago.

If every player was dead, all Serial Killer players would win, but if only one Serial Killer was alive, only that Serial Killer would win.

[notquitethere]

For what it's worth, I assign random votes approximately zero weight. I don't even use them.

Yeah sure, rationally we all say that. But I put myself on your radar and we've been beefing ever since. Since I tracked you on D1 and saw you weren't doing anything to do with the roleblocking, bussing or killing, I've considered you most likely not-the-mafia. Unfortunately the feeling has not been mutual.

[Imp]

I literally don't know what "done literally nothing with his conftown status" is meant to mean.

I thought it meant, and mean myself, "It would be so awesome if the Esteemed notquitethere went more active and vocal, and more visibly helped".

To my thinking, you're playing kinda like town with special night powers might usually do, y'know, to try and stay under the radar and not get nightkilled or worse.

indicates the surrounding crowd of players with an approving wave

Hey, we have claimed (and revealed) super inspecters, super doctors, and incredibly much else.  That are somehow not dying night after night.  So... play actively might make sense.

[notquitethere]

I'm inured to this. I think I say this in every game, it might as well be a catchphrase: town spend most of their time suspecting town. That's normal! To get beyond this, we need to keep reassessing, and realise that someone people are just going to feel off to us.

I always suspect Max, Web and Toony more than other players. I've been fooled into thinking they're town when they're scum too many times and so I have a residual mistrust in every game. That's fine, I just need to be aware of it and try not to either fall into misplaced suspicion or overcompensate and ignore them.

As it stands, Max feels pretty town to me. I've seen helpful-scum Toony before and I'm reluctant to fully trust (hence my track/watch of him last night) but I have no reason mechanically or day-game to think he's more scum than not. Web I gave a hard time but eventually came around to thinking as town, and I was right there (however long it took).


I've been as vocal as my time-on-computer can allow. I think being in a different time zone never helps me here as I post most when others are asleep. Do a lurker tracker, I'm pretty sure I haven't been under the radar compared to most other players here.

[Imp]

Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist, would Esteemed sofanthiel have been considered a 'living player' before that one's elimination?

[BlackHeartKabal]

@Elephant:
I also find Webadict's death very strange on N2, because either scum tried to kill Imp on N2 (which doesn't make any sense because Imp would have been kill-immune if you believe Hector) or more realistically they somehow bypassed my bus to kill Webadict regardless, which is worrying. I'm also a little perplexed why I didn't die last night since it was pretty obvious I was going to protect the super inspect cop. Did they try to kill Imp anyway or what?

Possibly. Regarding N2, the possibility that immediately comes to mind is that Hector is scum and his NK bypasses the immunity he grants. Alternatively, scum targeted Imp because they are silly noobs.

The SK accusation is, with utmost sincerity, flattering. Following TricMagic's flip, I don't think an SK cult would exist with two SKs (counting TricMagic as one, since, well, look at their role).

I guess you could also have been redirected, BHK, but then who has the mark? Crystallizedmire? Scum? Crystallizedmire, who is scum?

If I was redirected, the redirector would have the mark.

Maybe the redirector is dead, too.

(...)

Sigh. I am decidedly town, and as stated above, I can't envision room for an SK. This is a mislynch which I would consider dumb if not for how confusing the whole situation is, when we have better  candidates. The entire game has had some flavour of night action mischief, why do you think I'm involved when I explicitly tried to stay out of all of it after seeing the writing on the wall? The most I can be faulted is being secretive to try and forward my gameplan for the town's sake.

Do you truly think that I'm an SK that gets roleblocked on being visited? An SK with the brilliant gameplan of marking all the peripheral players so that I could try to mark one confirmed town and die? Is this your accusation? If so, I think I know how Jack feels.

(...)

For TricMagic to become an SK, he would have had to use Noxious Neurotoxin Breath to apply Fallout Fumes to two players, then successfully use Feverous Fang Bite to kill both of those players in a row without being blocked/redirected/wrong about who NNB hit/having used NNB on one of multiple status-immune players/having Fallout Fumes cleansed by whoever it was who claimed status cleansing/having his target protected. Tric turning into a serial killer is an improbable edge case that doesn't preclude another SK being in the game. I do agree that it's weird to have SK-Allies in a game with more than one potential SK, but I'm pretty sure it's been done before.

Yes, I do think you could be an SK who gets blocked upon being visited because you deathmark anyone who visits you. Maybe if you die with every living player deathmarked, you kill them all and win, like a suicide arsonist. This is speculative, I know, but not particularly implausible.

Tric would be encouraged to keep trying, though - even without the SK alignment, I'd argue that to be the equivalent of the effective presence of an SK. Likewise, under your accusation, that would be two SKs with the exact same goal of inflicting some sort of "mark" on everyone. It's a speculation that I don't put much stock in and wouldn't if I were a theoretical third player overseeing this case.

Relevant question - Imp, do you still have my mark?

Also, how much time is left in the day?

[FallacyofUrist]

Day ends in 1 hour and 55 minutes, by my reckoning.

[Imp]

Relevant question - Imp, do you still have my mark?

If you target me, you lose your kill.  If you mean to help town, and you think you have no non-town marked targets, I invite you to go for me, to confirm I don't have your mark, and if I do, that you can hopefully remove non-town.

I confirm I don't have your mark.

I lost it N1, immediately after getting it, as I reported then and mentioned since.

It's a big part of why Esteemed ToonyMan is considered confirmed doctor, because how else did I see myself lose that mark?

Additionally, I was the swappable half of that swap that the Esteemed Toonyman did N2, and I no longer have anything but the innates showing from then, which if I somehow lied about losing it N1, I would have surely lost it N2, unless something even weirder is going on.

Either way, no matter what, I don't have the mark.  But I'd take your try to get me before I see a townie die.  Of the known marked, I don't think any of them are non-town, though I'm happy to finish inspecting the lot of them if the game goes that long.

[ToonyMan]

@BlackHeart:

FYI if Jim claimed being mason buddies with Webadict or something I was probably going to vote him on the spot.

Was this not exactly claimed? Webadict, Jim, and Spin are masons.

Jim made it sound like he was with Webadict (don't think about it), but that doesn't appear to be the case.

@NQT:
Elephant claims being masons with Jim. I assume they're town confirmed with each other.

[Elephant Parade]

Tric would be encouraged to keep trying, though - even without the SK alignment, I'd argue that to be the equivalent of the effective presence of an SK. Likewise, under your accusation, that would be two SKs with the exact same goal of inflicting some sort of "mark" on everyone. It's a speculation that I don't put much stock in and wouldn't if I were a theoretical third player overseeing this case.

I don't think it's equal to the effective presence of an SK because even a Tric who goes for his SK condition is going to have trouble getting to it, and I don't see anything particularly strange about two SKs with a similar mechanism being in the same game given that we also have two roleblockers who can apply a status with the potential to kill and two separate miller-masons.

@BlackHeart:

FYI if Jim claimed being mason buddies with Webadict or something I was probably going to vote him on the spot.

Was this not exactly claimed? Webadict, Jim, and Spin are masons.

Jim made it sound like he was with Webadict (don't think about it), but that doesn't appear to be the case.

@NQT:
Elephant claims being masons with Jim. I assume they're town confirmed with each other.

This is the case, yes.

[Lenglon]

NQT: You are right to have found me different since Day 1, I've been very busy with holidays and haven't been able to put in my normal level of time and effort this game ever since I flew to visit family.

BHK: My night action results were:

Night 1:
Hector visited Imp

Night 2:
Toonyman is not in a group chat

Night 3:
Maximum Spin is in a group
Maximum Spin is not in a group
You have been marked for death

Everyone: I will not be able to be on at Day end. I'm putting my vote somewhere reasonable but imperfect since the Jim/EP masons thing has thrown off my reads.
Secretdorf

[ToonyMan]

@Imp:
This is only a suggestion, but inspecting Elephant or Jim tonight is a possible avenue to take because this would confirm two players in one.

[Maximum Spin]

Max, if you and only you ask me to I will directly clarify a few things.

I have a suspicion I might have an idea what that is, but please do if you think it will help.