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[Lenglon]

Hector: I know at least one of those didn't target Max because I would have gotten the same result twice if they both hit the same person. Also, Max claims to be untargetable, though I have my doubts about that (said doubts are part of why it was worth making the attempt).

[Lenglon]

Unvote: I had voted Jim as a joke but reflecting on Toonyman's analysis (who is IMO confirmed town)  it seems like either Max or Jim is scum here, and I don't think it's Max. I don't want to lynch someone with a joke vote.

[Jim Groovester]

PPE:
Ah hah! So one of Max or Jim is probably scum.

Jim is probably scum. 

People can be in group chats without being scum, under specific circumstances, that I've already indirectly hinted at.

It could be Esteemed BlackHeartKabal. It seems odd they would have just a “marked by death” action if they also have it with a roleblock, or if someone has to act on them, particularly considering what they can do with it if they die. Why just mark someone you say you’re marking because you find them suspicious if you can also block them too?

I would suggest that’s a bit more damning of them than Esteemed Jim Groovester tbh. I just mentioned my N3 in case someone had thoughts on it.

I didn't block because I didn't feel that I would block much if Lenglon turned out to be scum, and if Lenglon is town and an investigator, if I choose to block them, I am blocking an investigator. Too little reward and too much risk to block and mark instead of just marking. I didn't mention this way of marking because I figured that I wouldn't get shot too early with the impression of relative inconsistency regarding my role, but now that's out of the bag, I need to contribute as much as I can.

Only doing a mark is kind of lame, but there being something else going on with this, e.g., a duplicate action, would seem reasonable.



I'd prefer to lynch Crystalizedmire if they were available, but with CM being banished I'm less sure who I want to eliminate today.

Things I didn't address: Imp expanding their tunnel of Secretdorf on to me.

[hector13]

Hector: I know at least one of those didn't target Max because I would have gotten the same result twice if they both hit the same person. Also, Max claims to be untargetable, though I have my doubts about that (said doubts are part of why it was worth making the attempt).

That’s what we’re trying to figure out, is whether you were given a double action - which doesn’t make sense to me unless you submitted two different targets - or targeted someone who merged, which seems likely to have been Esteemed Jim Groovester and Esteemed Maximum Spin given my results.

However, if they did merge, it also means Esteemed Jim Groovester doesn’t care about breaking the post restriction and being unable to kill or protect in the night. If he is scum, he still has a partner to perform a kill, or is bluffing super hard.

PPE: also making fair points re:group chats.

[hector13]

Actually seeing as he did make that point about group chats, maybe Esteemed Jim Groovester would like to clarify if he is in one or not, and who he’s in one with.

[Jim Groovester]

Actually seeing as he did make that point about group chats, maybe Esteemed Jim Groovester would like to clarify if he is in one or not, and who he’s in one with.

Don't worry about it.

[Imp]

I notice this consistent pattern:

D4:

Secretdorf if you tried to fucking steal the same votes I tried to steal

we are going to have a problem

What are the chances-

Yeah, I stole Knightwing's vote. It's temporary since he's not going to be lynched today. I thought he wouldn't mind it.

D3:

In case it isn't obvious I stole Sofanthiel's vote. Somehow I got 2.

NOOOOOOO I WANTED SOFANTHIEL'S VOTES

GO STEAL SOMEBODY ELSE'S VOTES

It varies which of them claims first, but if Esteemed Jim Groovester is scum, how is he fakeclaiming?  Well, it appears to be with the cooperation of Esteemed Secretdorf, right?

And D2, Esteemed Jim Groovester established 'hey, I got 3 votes, I'm using them well, all's well and calm here' then 'huh, my votes are gone, grrr whatever'.  And then heavily stressed it was fine and this barely posting person seems town.  Why would Esteemed Jim Groovester do that?

If scum:

1) Covers their night action, we think they tried to steal a vote and failed.
2) Sort of distance from the likely partner?

But of the two, I think Esteemed Secretdorf is the more deadly faster.  Unless they really can give the votes, all of them, to the Esteemed Jim Groovester.

If Esteemed Jim Groovester is scum, how could Esteemed Secretdorf not be?

Things I didn't address: Imp expanding their tunnel of Secretdorf on to me.

Hey, Esteemed Jim Groovester, thank you for choosing not to be extremely cruel to me so far.  I understand that is entirely within your control and you'll do as you please at all times.

This is actually, no matter how poor my attempts, my 'scumhunting bible, my lesson how to play and how to play well', and you said it.

For those of you who don't know what to do ... find scum, which is your primary goal.

And because it bears repeating: Your primary goal is to find scum. Everything you do should help you towards that goal. And I do mean everything.

If you're scum, you will obviously have a different goal: Avoid detection until the end of the game. The best way to do this is to look like you are trying to find scum.

...So be bold, and just do the best you can. You're going to play this by aggressively questioning everything you find odd or scummy. This is to get you in the habit of asking questions a lot, since that's how the game of mafia is played and won.

Can you please help me understand how Esteemed Secretdorf is doing what you told us all to do?  Or what else they're doing to achieve a town wincon?  And why you say stuff like

Spot checking on SecretDorf says town.

and

Secretdorf hasn't done anything that makes me think he's scummy. I think you're drinking too much of your own paranoid kool aid about Secretdorf and should probably focus on what you know and what is easy to grasp about the game state rather than dwelling on hypotheticals.

I mean, I'm just trying to do what you told us all to do, it seems like really good advice.

[hector13]

Actually seeing as he did make that point about group chats, maybe Esteemed Jim Groovester would like to clarify if he is in one or not, and who he’s in one with.

Don't worry about it.

I’m a natural worrier.

Though it occurs to me: will your other group chat participants be able to confirm the group chat?

[Imp]

I do believe this is the accurate current votecount:

Secretdorf (3):  Imp, notquitethere, BlackHeartKabal,
BlackHeartKabal (2):  Maximum Spin,  hector13,
Knightwing64 (2):  Jim Groovester, Elephant Parade,
hector13 (0):
notquitethere (0):
Elephant Parade (0):
Imp (0):
Jim Groovester (0):
Lenglon (0):
Maximum Spin (0):
The Canadian kitten (0):
ToonyMan (0):

No Execution (0):

8 votes to hammer.  (15 votes in play)

Not Voting ( 8 ): Lenglon, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, Secretdorf, The Canadian kitten, ToonyMan,

[Jim Groovester]

Though it occurs to me: will your other group chat participants be able to confirm the group chat?

You're asking a lot of questions you shouldn't worry about.

If certain things happen it will pretty obvious how things are. But you shouldn't worry about it.

If I had to live and breathe by the advice I gave ten years ago, I'd have to lynch Knightwing64 every game, and I don't, so I must not think the same way about how to play mafia that I did ten years ago.

If I cared about teaching people how to play mafia again, I wouldn't use my older style as a stellar example of how to play, so please don't use quotes from ten years ago like it's supposed to mean something to me or is going to change my opinion.

[ToonyMan]

Actually seeing as he did make that point about group chats, maybe Esteemed Jim Groovester would like to clarify if he is in one or not, and who he’s in one with.

Don't worry about it.

I submitted the wrong role name clearly, didn't get to join the cool kids club.

I don't see any role flips that talk about group chats, shouldn't that be in one of the dead player's?

[ToonyMan]

Hector: I know at least one of those didn't target Max because I would have gotten the same result twice if they both hit the same person. Also, Max claims to be untargetable, though I have my doubts about that (said doubts are part of why it was worth making the attempt).

I think Max is just lying out their ass to look cool.

[Maximum Spin]

I'm not caught up with the thread, but the reason I don't think I was merged with the esteemed Jim last night is because the esteemed hector13 should know that: His action on me told him information in return, and if he only got one result, there could only have been one person hit.

I strongly suspect, based on my own night results, that TEJG was fused with somebody while incidentally bussed with me, and the esteemed Lenglon's inspect hit two players, namely, TEJG and TEBHK.

[Maximum Spin]

Let me be super clear: TEBHK had to have been one of the players TEL hit last night. Whether there was some action going the other way, I don't know, but what I saw only makes sense if that's the case.

[Maximum Spin]

Hector: I know at least one of those didn't target Max because I would have gotten the same result twice if they both hit the same person. Also, Max claims to be untargetable, though I have my doubts about that (said doubts are part of why it was worth making the attempt).

I think Max is just lying out their ass to look cool.

I never have to lie to look cool, Esteemed Toonyman.

The lying is just a bonus.