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Author Topic: FBYOR 6 - Game Over - Last Laughs Of The Dead  (Read 87134 times)

Imp

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #825 on: December 18, 2023, 12:54:59 am »

I would very much prefer Esteemed EuchreJack

Honorable Hector13:

your reasons for wanting EuchreJack lynched, would you please list what they currently are?
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Maximum Spin

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #826 on: December 18, 2023, 01:15:23 am »

Also... falls down in terror omg omg what if Maximum Spin is a cult leader?

I have no evidence if we have one.  But Maximum Spin just spun a story as strong as TricMagic's to me, about being scum.

What if Maximum Spin were faced with the choice of town... that could become a cult leader, if things work out that way?

I have no evidence, just panic.
Nope. I'm no TricMagic. If I were a cult leader, you'd never know until you were in the cult or I win.
I don't even have any choices. At least not any that I know. Maybe if you really were able to dream up a cult like you mentioned, I'd get it because of my request... in which case by all means please do.
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hector13

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #827 on: December 18, 2023, 01:29:28 am »

Mechanical confirmation from three different sources regarding red Pirates, and Esteemed EuchreJack asking who wants to be a pirate among his earliest posts.

His “Miller softclaim” sounds nonsense. The meta around here for Millers as long as I remember has been to claim it first post, and I’ve been around longer than him, so why he would consider that to be “bad play” is beyond me as it’s the only play he knows. The alternative to not claiming in the first post is to play in such a ways a to avoid getting inspected, and - not being mean - I don’t think he’s good enough to do that, and I don’t think he believes he’s good enough to do that, certainly not in a BYOR game with 17 other players. Even then, he says he’s a Miller later anyway, which makes that moot. It comes across as clutching at any argument to make it seem like that’s what he was doing.

The hissy fit had… an artificiality to it. He starts off being bitter toward Esteemed ToonyMan because Esteemed ToonyMan is kind of the instigator, but the next couple of posts are benign, including one aimed at me. He and I have a history, and I don’t think he would have any problem at all going full send on me if he was truly upset.

He also mentions asking for a modkill, while also knowing that Esteemed Jim Groovester has a daykill, unused at that point, so if he was ever truly wanting out of the game, he could have voted him, or just requested an out. The prevarication doesn’t make sense for someone who has checked out, and feels hard done by.

He made a full claim a while ago and I posted about it then but I can’t be bothered finding it as it’s late. That sounded like nonsense too, didn’t convince me.

Eurgh fine I’ll go find it… here, in the section directed at Esteemed EuchreJack. I got ignored, but I’m apparently woeful at follow-up.



I think that about covers it, and I’m done because this took longee than I wanted it to and my evening is going down the drain. I’ll follow along and answer things if it doesn’t require too much effort.
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Elephant Parade

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #828 on: December 18, 2023, 01:48:37 am »

5. Jack is openly claiming he is in a PirateChat right now, in a game where Pirates are Mafia.

Literally where the hell are the actual Pirates if Jack is in a PirateChat by himself?
There is one way to square this circle:
Also, since this game is Miller central, I'd like to float the unlikely-but-plausible possibility that Pirate is a fake alignment that only exists as an inspect result, not an actual faction. I think this is less likely than piratecult!EJ, pirates!TM/Imp, or pirate!someonewhohasntcomeupyet, but it's worth considering

Elephant Parade:
Quote
I am town and inspect as town.  But with my death, some dreams will end.  I may seem a tempting fruit for those not town, but you should beware, for in my dreams, my killer's ship is beset by storms - I have some goods and more each day, but taken from my corpse, they become accursed and help your enemies more than you.

Each day I live, new wonders may grow, and maybe help for those with various problems bestowed.  I mean to help only town - I probably can't manage that, but I mean to try.  While I live, I probably can't avoid helping anyone, possibly everyone else alive at various times.  I could turn this role selfish, but I'm not interested.  I'd rather play it to help.  I also don't actually have direct control of what wonders come, I just get to try and call them.

My death can't directly hurt town, other than from a townie dead.  If I die to town, or just die, that's fine, my dreams only end.  No harm to town, or benefit to town's enemies, if I am lynched, town-action killed, or just generally die.  If I am killed by certain or most others - oh, some of you were told reason to kill me.  But what you were not told, and what I mean to reveal:

When I die, it's likely everyone will wish I had died later, unless I'm the last kill needed for that side that needs me dead.
If I die by action of Pirate, Mafia, or SK - you benefit your enemies more than you benefit yourself.  I predict you and your team (if you have a team) will wish someone else had killed me, and killed me later in the game at that.
OK.

I can come up with one reason why you would post this as scum: to give yourself an excuse to be confusing and unhelpful. Given that you lost AFM3 by being too helpful, that strikes me as quite plausible! Maybe not as likely as an honest townsided-3P claim, but I have a hard time squaring that possibility with your weird logic throughout the game.

Quote
Well, lookie at these two jumping in jumpies, Elephant Parade and Maximum Spin.  I wonder how their words their help their wincons.
Are you implying that pointing out the same obvious error is a sign of collusion?
No.  My error or not, I was trying to get an answer out of Lenglon.  My response was purely based on, I see you two interposing between my question of Lenglon, and I wanted his answer whether you gave yours or not.  Also yours seemed to me at the time like just an attack.  I now understand a little more about masons in general.
I don't see how that state of mind leads to that comment, but I might be misunderstanding again. Meh.

Your play over the last 24 hours has been more townlike and I now think there's at best a 50% chance you're scum, but I still find you considerably more suspicious than the average player, and much more so than either of the current lynch candidates. EJ has town vibes and sofanthiel isn't any scummier than he has been as town in my other games with him; I think I even remember him rolefishing in one of them. That said, I haven't given him that much thought yet. I'll probably correct that tomorrow.

My preferred execution for today would be NQT, who's set off a lot of alarm bells for me, but I don't think that's happening.

PPE: Hector's post has me considering scum!EJ more seriously. However:
Quote
His “Miller softclaim” sounds nonsense. The meta around here for Millers as long as I remember has been to claim it first post, and I’ve been around longer than him, so why he would consider that to be “bad play” is beyond me as it’s the only play he knows. The alternative to not claiming in the first post is to play in such a ways a to avoid getting inspected, and - not being mean - I don’t think he’s good enough to do that, and I don’t think he believes he’s good enough to do that, certainly not in a BYOR game with 17 other players. Even then, he says he’s a Miller later anyway, which makes that moot. It comes across as clutching at any argument to make it seem like that’s what he was doing.
This is an appeal to general meta that says absolutely nothing about how EJ feels about said meta. For all I know, EJ has played Miller this way before and you're conveniently glossing over that. Probably not—it'd be a risky lie—but I would rather not take that chance. Are you aware of a past game where EJ was a miller or discussed Miller strategy, for comparison's sake?
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hector13

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #829 on: December 18, 2023, 01:51:15 am »

No idear, willing to be proven wrong.
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Elephant Parade

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #830 on: December 18, 2023, 01:55:24 am »

OK. Understandable, but in that case I can't give that paragraph much weight, sorry. Hopefully someone else can think of a game.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #831 on: December 18, 2023, 02:10:31 am »

I was typing a response to ToonyMan but the more I look at it the more trouble I have disputing his conclusion regarding EuchreJack's pirateness.

I may or may not include a second scumteam with a name such as Werewolves or Gamers.

Jack starts the game off freely advertising his pirateness and does not believe players like Imp and ToonyMan who are asserting that it is a second mafia.

@Toony: I don't believe millers should claim. If they don't look scummy, they won't be suspected. It's a distraction in a game with this many players. Why are you trying to muddy up the waters with this many players?  >:(

This is a pretty weird thing for somebody to say if their role specifies that they alignment inspect as something else. Maybe EuchreJack doesn't think anything of an ability that says he inspects as an atypical alignment and it doesn't factor into his decision making when he makes this statement, but who knows. EuchreJack does say he inspects as a pirate, but only after ToonyMan and Imp say pirate is a mafia faction.

I really hate laboring over this topic though. I wish I had saved my shot and could have put this to rest.

EuchreJack.

Jack, I need you to publicly say who your intended pirate chat invitees are. If you don't, I will vote you... harder. If they don't say they received your invite on Day 2, I will vote you harder, again, on Day 2.

Publicly stating your intended invitees is reasonable assurances to the people who are defending you and gives them measures on Day 2 to judge that you have done what you have stated you would do and that your action is what you have claimed it would do.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #832 on: December 18, 2023, 02:11:14 am »

Also, hector13, if there were a player named Hams in this game, how would you address them?
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Lenglon

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #833 on: December 18, 2023, 02:14:17 am »

Elephant Parade: Please tell me more about why you dislike NQT.
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Imp

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #834 on: December 18, 2023, 02:14:41 am »

Nope. I'm no TricMagic. If I were a cult leader, you'd never know until you were in the cult or I win.
I don't even have any choices. At least not any that I know. Maybe if you really were able to dream up a cult like you mentioned, I'd get it because of my request... in which case by all means please do.

Understood.  I have very limited control and cannot guarantee either way.  While I live, wonders may grow, and who will guide my dreams?  I mean to help only town, but it is likely I will help others too, and cannot avoid it.

I certainly know how to increase the odds of... such to-me, perilous risks.  I will not, of my own will, be trying for them.

But I literally don't control what happens.  I do get to choose how much risk I take, at least to some extent.  Others do get to guide my dreams.  And I'm not sure what could happen depending on if I'm killed by SK, Mafia, or Pirate alignment.  I don't know what the enemy of my enemy actually means, that was very vaguely answered and I decided to accept and stop asking.

I believe you about 'I'd never know it' though. unless there was reason or need to reveal.  If you needed 'God to kiss Satan while the other Incarnations applaud', you'd try to make it happen, because that's what you needed.

Revered hector13

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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

hector13

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #835 on: December 18, 2023, 02:19:33 am »

Also, hector13, if there were a player named Hams in this game, how would you address them?

I want you to think about me saying it, and then think about that in an Italian accent.
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Imp

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #836 on: December 18, 2023, 02:34:37 am »

Everyone:

Publicly stating your intended invitees is reasonable assurances to the people who are defending you and gives them measures on Day 2 to judge that you have done what you have stated you would do and that your action is what you have claimed it would do.

I really urgently support this being done too, and think EuchreJack has said who was intended to be recruited previously, but should say so again, I hope.  I believe I'm one of them.

I am town right now.  I do fear this may be a conversion, though I'm pretty sure it can't be.  But I do, town me of now, want me stopped if I stop being town.

I do not know what happens if I'm converted.  However, the 'imp goes off' stuff doesn't seem very changeable.  I of now avow that if I die because of anything but being killed by a non-SK, Pirate, Mafia alignment, the 'enemies getting stronger stuff' does not appear to happen.

But I'm more worried about conversion than 'EuchreJack lied'.  Both have to be dealt with - but conversion means deal with more than just EuchreJack.

Spoiler: Elephant Parade: (click to show/hide)
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If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Imp

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If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Secretdorf

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #838 on: December 18, 2023, 03:39:58 am »

Secretdorf: I believe your vote is a bandwagon vote without any reasoning behind it, would you care to prove me wrong by sharing what your reasoning was?
Sofanthiel had only said something contradictory about  rolefishing to Imp, and what seemed like an RVS vote on max. That's what I remember anyway. I just wanted more from them, I don't have any definite reason of suspecting them of being scum. I should note that in their initial reaction to the votes Sofanthiel was unaware of the bandwagon on jack, so that makes it unlikely that they had received a summary from scumchat.


About my request(not placing more than seven votes when lynching), I will claim, since soon it's going to be obviousanyway, I will gain a vote every time the condition is met. I also gain an additional vote every time I post a vote count when one has been asked for. I have may or may not have other ways of gaining votes which I am reluctant to use. These additions are permanent. They also prove I am town, as, I am sure you can imagine, a Mafioso having so many votes would be OP.

I also think Jack's a better option for the lynch. I can understand some people's reasons for feeling Jack is not mafia, but I have not played with Jack before, so I must be excused for not agreeing with the opinion that town Jack somehow got him in such trouble through blunders.  Euchrejack, I think should roleclaim, and put end to useless speculation on the matter; If you're town, your role should grant benefits to town that outweigh the millerization. As it is, it seems more probable to me that you are either pirate or third party.

(This is the sixth vote on Jack)
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hector13

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Re: FBYOR 6 (17 / 18) - Day 1 - Shots Fired
« Reply #839 on: December 18, 2023, 03:43:21 am »

Uh… I had 5 votes as a mafioso recently? Something like that. Would’ve been able to get more had I not painted myself into a corner.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

If you struggle with your mental health, please seek help.
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