Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[EuchreJack]

Jack: back here you called me to dangerous to risk recruiting, and said you were certain to attempt to recruit Max. I would still prefer for you to not recruit Max or Toony please, and still think it would be unwise for me to explain why I'm making this request. Do you still plan on recruiting Max?

"Also, um, I think dangerous is a compliment, probably... um..."
shuffles feet
"Thanks."

I think the third person should remain secret for now, but I will note your concerns.
And yes, "Dangerous" is a complement.

[notquitethere]

You all have to admit, this is pretty good Day 1 drama. EITHER EJ accidentally self-implicated, had a meltdown, and eventually through encouragement of Web et al pulled himself out OR he is just a fake millerifier like he claims and went into a meltdown because his opening gambit shot himself in the foot. People seem to have become swayed towards the latter but I'm not sure I have a full sense why.

Imp, maybe it's your confusing post style, maybe I'm just tired, but could explain a little more clearly why you think EJ is in the clear?

Lenglon, I don't think a Canadian Kitten vote is likely today. Who's your #2 and #3 suspect?

A big reason for eliminating EJ today is it means we definitely get to talk about something different on D2. But if he genuinely is spiralling townie, then obviously let's not do that.

[Crystalizedmire]

Crystalized: We haven't really had a chat so far, lets change that. Would you please tell me what you think of Hector13 and Sofanthiel?

hector13 seems to be town but unfortunately, my lack of patience makes it hard for me to fully absorb them. Because I can't fully absorb them, I probably won't notice any filler in there. Sofanthiel is suspicious but I'm dying on the Imp hill

[EuchreJack]

@Esteemed Hector13: I think you might be underestimating the value of TheCanadianKitten's offering. ElephantParade is a solid find as town.
Another town finding like that would be most welcomed. But I agree that a second player's analysis would be most appreciated.
Sometimes, we look over a player because we think they be scum, but find evidence they're probably town.

A big reason for eliminating EJ today is it means we definitely get to talk about something different on D2. But if he genuinely is spiralling townie, then obviously let's not do that.

Day 2 is always Christmas, when we talk about all the cool toys Santa Fallacy gave us. We'll definitely be talking about something else on D2, regardless of my presence. It's actually a big reason why I just wanted to bow out, since literally nobody is going to analyze my death when they could be discussing all those cool and neat night actions.

[Lenglon]

Crystalized: neat, please give me more detail. You said Sofanthiel is suspicious, what's suspicious about them? You said you're dying on the Imp hill, please restate your case for why I should vote Imp.

[Lenglon]

NQT: I'd like to wait to answer your question please. I'm working towards them indirectly at this time and don't think it's time to explain my intentions.

[hector13]

Esteemed sofanthiel

Which player(s) do you consider to be most likely to be Town, and why?

Which player(s) do you consider to be most likely to be scum, and why?

Which player(s) do you most want more information from, and how are you going to go about doing that? My advice would be to pick one or two of them, vote them, ask them questions, and try to tie them down in your mind as town or scum.

You don’t need to solve the entire game on D1, but trying to solve one or two players is a good start.

Imp, Egan, and Toony all contributed to the crusade against pirates early in the game and before Fallacy's confirmation of their concerns.  A few posts ago, I was still skeptical about the existence of the marauders; now I'm inclined to trust the three fighters (they could potentially be a different scum team, considering that, based on my mental calculus, the number of pirates is also three, but I'm content with ridding this ship of any unrighteous sailors before delving in and exploring such possibilities).

Jack, on rather obvious grounds, and Max, for reasons most of my posts thus far have concentrated on.  I also recall someone specifying that another participant admitted to being a pirate, but I can't, for the life of me, find that message.  I'll be very thankful if anyone can point me to it, for I lack the concentration required to sift through the whole thread.

I doubt this one is a mystery; it's what I've been doing the entire game.

Could you talk us through the mental calculus of the highlighted part, please?

[Maximum Spin]

Esteemed Maximum Spin

Oh, to be clear, I'm abundantly fine with that happening later, closer to day end, I just wanted to establish that I definitely want to break Secretdorf's condition from earlier at some point. I don't feel the need to convince you to vote right this second if you don't want to.

What was Esteemed Secretdorf’s condition that you want to break?

"Don't let anyone be hammered or lynched by more than seven players". No indication of why that I recall. I don't feel like finding the specific post.

[Crystalizedmire]

Crystalized: neat, please give me more detail. You said Sofanthiel is suspicious, what's suspicious about them? You said you're dying on the Imp hill, please restate your case for why I should vote Imp.

I feel sofanthiel is suspicious because of their reaction Euchre Jack's wagon. I feel they're too eager and imediately started having long resolved conversations.
Case against Imp continued:
I really dislike Imp's style of long form posts. When I first started playing with them. I appreciate that Imp's post puts the filler in but it is still filler. In this post Imp tries to fearmonger us into believing that everyone is town(except Euchre) and Euchre will convert 3 of us into something else even though we are not in a bastard. This is a pattern with Imp's posts, they'll speculate about the setup which I heard is a scum tell.

[hector13]

...Anyway, I would like to request that, if not too inconvenient, any chosen player not be hammered until number for hammer plummets down to seven, and upon day end, at time of execution, only be voted by seven players maximum.

As for why, it grants a benefit which will be obvious soon after we do that.

I should be less lazy it was literally their last post.

You did make it easier to find though.

Wasn’t it Esteemed Secretdorf that said they got benefits for doing vote counts at some point? Probably related to that.

[EuchreJack]

Wasn’t it Esteemed Secretdorf that said they got benefits for doing vote counts at some point? Probably related to that.

Yup. I distinctly remember because I was excluded from the list of people that could make the request. But was that mean, or part of the conditions?
@Secretdorf: Could you do a vote count for me now? Were you unable to do one for me earlier?

[webadict]

You all have to admit, this is pretty good Day 1 drama. EITHER EJ accidentally self-implicated, had a meltdown, and eventually through encouragement of Web et al pulled himself out OR he is just a fake millerifier like he claims and went into a meltdown because his opening gambit shot himself in the foot. People seem to have become swayed towards the latter but I'm not sure I have a full sense why.

Imp, maybe it's your confusing post style, maybe I'm just tired, but could explain a little more clearly why you think EJ is in the clear?

Lenglon, I don't think a Canadian Kitten vote is likely today. Who's your #2 and #3 suspect?

A big reason for eliminating EJ today is it means we definitely get to talk about something different on D2. But if he genuinely is spiralling townie, then obviously let's not do that.

^ Yeah, so this is why, Max

[Maximum Spin]

Very understandable.

[Imp]

EuchreJack

So, your final initiation test is to prove you are town so you are unlikely to be lynched._{My survival is also a prerequisite.}

Laughs  Right.  Well, wouldn't be the first time this game you voted me to not die.  Even though you weren't about to die when you said/did it.

Given the lay of the land, I will be surprised if you are a D1 lynch.  After all, you might pick someone from any alignment to join you there, unless they already know they can't join you there for some reason.

I can say, I have a town role and nothing in my PM makes me think I can't join you.  In fact, me specifically is nearly like an arrow pointed at what you appear to offer, from my PM. 

Spoiler: I discussed that early on. (click to show/hide)

My deepest thoughts about this:

I think Pirates as a scum faction may not even exist yet.  They may come to exist, and be scum.

I have reason to believe that if I willingly join with others, some interesting things happen.  But I am town.

I am only ever gonna agree to join with town.  That is part of why I am not not not interested in being recruited and I am sure not volunteering for anything except I do ask to be considered as a protection target if someone chooses, and especially protection from conversion if there is that sort of protection.  Because I am town and I do not not not not not want to become scum.

There's other reasons why if pirates as described actually are not scum, and we're all really sure of it, that I really wanna be one - which is not not not a yes from me right now, EucherJack.  However, if we do somehow establish that no, Pirates are just another flavor of town... I would wanna be one.  But they are red, Pirates are red.  In all my dreams, where I see Pirates, they are red.  I don't think I can agree to become one.  But darn, you worded that nearly perfect.  I really wish I could say yes, EucherJack.  As is, I'm scared to even vote you, for fear voting you, or being part of lynching you, might be part of how you get a chance to convert.

In fact, your intense confusion helps me dare reach out.  Before I revealed anything, you were revealing you didn't know key info that helps me trust whatever you are, you cannot be scum at start of play.  To me, we look like key and lock or two interlocking puzzle pieces, which makes me wonder if there's up to two others that maybe are potentially 'ideal' members.  There might not be, but your role confusion and mine appear nearly designed to find each other.

Eminent hector13

If this is the case, why are you not bothered about Esteemed ToonyMan and Esteemed Egan_BW also claiming a red Pirate in their PM?

I may be too novice to utterly believe if 3 of us know something, we have 3 alignments between us.  I'll rely on you guys for that kind of clue, and I've seen it mentioned in the thread.

Egan_BW was slow to react to mere mention of Pirates.  Toonyman reacted nearly instantly, with high focused attention.  But talk about making three pirates got a powerful reaction from Egan_BW, and me, no new reaction from Toonyman.

Let's look at each person's first mention of Pirates in the thread up to EuchreJack's first panic point, which also shows each person's reaction to the word and others using it (if they happen to use it themself), first to last... and I'll include ToonyMan's first and second posts with Pirate in them, as one reacts to EuchreJack and the second reacts to me, and I'll also included my reaction to EuchreJack's intention to 'make 3 pirates', so we can compare it to Egan_BW's reaction too, and throw in EuchreJack's actual invitation to 'make 3 pirates':

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EuchreJack

Also: Who wants to be a pirate?

ToonyMan reaction to EuchreJack

@Jack:
Are you claiming you're a pirate?

TricMagic

Got pirates, mafia, gentleman, dragons, penguins, ghosts. Hats apparently. Also Kabal just voted Jim, welp.

Imp 1st reaction:

Game this big, we surely have red Pirates and red Mafia, one or more navy serial killers.
I have reason to think we face red Pirates, red Mafia, and navy Serial Killers
EuchreJack, this almost seems like something that requests help, but I am not sure.  Also, in my dreams, Pirates filled the seas with red.  If you need help, you might need it most.  I'm also scared of you.

ToonyMan reaction to Imp

I can vouch for Imp here: My alignment inspects as Pirate instead of Town. This leads to me believe that Pirate is at the very least not a town alignment. Jack appears to be siding with or as a pirate here, which is not town behavior.

You appear to know quite a bit Imp of the Rings, thanks for enlightening us.

Elephant Parade

The existence of a pirate alignment seems nearly confirmed barring a ToonyMan/Imp scumteam seeing EJ's post and pulling a weird gambit. That doesn't seem very likely, but I also don't know why cult!EJ would openly recruit. I guess it could be a fake masonizer ploy?

EuchreJack: What does becoming a pirate entail?

Crystalizedmire

It seems like pirates has a convert role and are most likely cults:

EuchreJack's 'make 3 pirates':

...somebody's angling for recruitment into the Pirates.

I should point out, I can recruit 3 pirates at end of Day 1, and no more.

Imp 2nd reaction:

EuchreJack   omg.  Okay, Pirates are scum.  They are red.  They need to die for town to win.  I'd vote you myself but maybe you're jester (I don't know if there are jester).

Why are you telling us this?

Webadict, if you're taking votes for that power use, I am considering nominating EuchreJack, mindful that this may be a bad idea.

We should, based on what I have been told, treat that as equivalent to EuchreJack offering to nominate folks into the mafia team - it's just the other scumteam, if that is what red means.  Based on the wording of my PM, it is also possible that there are scum teams that do not yet exist, or there may be more than 2.

Lenglon

Imp and Jack: It appears that you two are on the brink of thunderdoming. Would you please each make your case for why / why not pirates are scum?

Egan_BW

Look, I don't want to break keyfabe too much, but I have no idea how to work this into RP, so: Pirates are red colored. I feel this implicates EuchreJack.

Maximum Spin

I feel like EuchreJack is better than nothing, but I'm not totally convinced that pirates exist and aren't just an alignment you can inspect as to make people think they exist. That's 100% something Fallacy would do.

So, we know TricMagic was innocent/ignorant of role info about Pirates, and I think their initial reaction shows that, just another thing for a dragon to eat.

I am anything but innocent/ignorant of role info about Pirates, for all I haven't flipped yet.  I'll mention here, I am probably shockingly well informed for town.  I 'picked the right thing to ask for', apparently, and I have a lot of downsides and conditionals, and a lot that is only maybe and could be and depends on.  A lot of that stuff's low probability.  I also don't know the key info that the rest of you probably know, there are probably some puzzle pieces out there in some of your hands, that might fit 'key in lock' for me.  That said, play how you please, I'm not asking for anything.  I've already dreamed a lot, and in most of my dreams, I drown.

However, I urge consider my reactions as 'highly informed about pirates, and given reason to fear pirates, mafia, and SK past the normal reasons town should be concerned about them, and especially afraid of 'existed at start scum teams, if any''.

I think EuchreJack looks 'prepared to mess up if not a genius asking the right questions from the start', same as me in my first post.  (I also note... I had the info to possibly save EuchreJack from that issue, if I asked the right questions and thought right.  And I am grateful for this astonishing role I have)

I think ToonieMan looks highly informed, and knows to look for pirates in ways past Egan and myself.  He also reacts strongly to me as well as EuchreJack, and appears to go defensive and declarative.  That 'thanking' of me, it scared me then, scares me now, it feels off - but I have a lot to fear and a lot feels off to me.

I think Elephant Parade looks probably getting info to react to from the thread only, not PM or a scumchat with a red Pirate alignment for all to see.

I think CrystalizedMire makes a reaction that could be supported by the thread alone at that point, but for other reasons I also think I see CrystalizedMire being likely scum, it's in the reaction to Max for 'discrediting Imp'.  I could be wrong.

EuchreJack is still confidently professing 'this is a good thing' to the forum, says can make 3 end of D1.

Imp immediately flips out and attempts to get this to not happen and explains why making 3 pirates would be incredibly anti-town.

I think Lenglon's reaction is very forum-focused.  If Lenglon's informed, this player can hide that super well.

I think Egan_BW's reaction is far lower than mine, and not nearly as well informed or careful.  But they go on the hunt at that point, and not any moment before.  They ignored mere discussion of Pirates, and mere questioning about if anyone wanted to be a pirate, they played their own game until they heard 'make 3 pirates'.  Then they dropped the game and went for EuchreJack at that point, but not before.

But before then, Egan_BW did an entire complex, reactive with others RP post, and then reacted to TricMagic quoting the entire long RP post, and didn't notice or go for EuchreJack until after that point, shortly after EuchreJack posted about creating pirates.  Took me about 15 minutes to get my reaction post out, took Egan_BW about 50 minutes to get theirs out.

I don't know that having a scumchat, with alignment pirates glaring red in it, along with 'x marks the [target]' is going to get that kind of delayed reaction from Egan_BW, as Egan_BW seems to have read the thread, picked stuff about us a bit, and made it into complex RP.  I don't think Egan_BW missed seeing mention of pirates, I think they needed to hear more than mention (so did I).

But Tooneyman, even thanking me, maybe for probably showing more than enough to identify imp=[target], looks possible, or probable.

TooneyMan, can you help us understand why you behaved as you did, at each key point?

Also, I note TooneyMan is eager to die.  Was voting Jim Groovester, trying to get reciprocal kills, and seemed eager to show a roleflip.

Do we think there can be false roleflips in a game like this, an ability that will trigger one?

[Imp]

could explain a little more clearly why you think EJ is in the clear?

Yep, EJ cannot be scum at start of play.  He could be anything else.  I can't prove this to anyone but myself, but I am sure.

I have an ability that was quoted to all existing scum teams at start of play.  I know the exact wording as do any and all of them.

It states the alignments of Mafia, Pirate, or serial killer who kill the player with that ability get a reward and that all scum teams existing at start of play get quoted the text this ability.  It also shows Mafia and Pirate in red, serial killer in navy.  It says some other stuff too, doesn't matter for purpose of answering your question now.

EuchreJack claims to have access to their Piratechat.  That does seem likely.

If that Piratechat is a existing at start scum team chat, or if EuchreJack is part of any existing at start scum team, then EuchreJack and any teammates were informed of this.  Even if shown in a non-color showing way, it is stated that Pirate is an alignment in a way that shows it's got to be similar to Mafia and/or Serial Killer.

From start of play, EuchreJack behaves realistically that they did not know this.  If this is a scum gambit, wow, I'm fooled.  And if EuchreJack is scum, they saw this and had any scum team they have shouting it at them.  But they made mistake after mistake, looking really earnest and genuinely confused, and then all the other reactions.  I believe it fully.  EuchreJack is underinformed for the behavior shown to be anything but not scum.

[obligatory for the Mafia/Pirates/Serial Killers just catching on to my words now - you don't know how misleading that ability is.  The one of you who kills me, and your team if you have one, is not likely to be those Victorious Villians the ability name states.  It's the Villain(s) who were not part of kill me, when you do that are far, far more likely to actually benefit, so think before you rush.  It still hurts town, but because it helps other anti-town, but you will get accursed stuff from my corpse, and others get better help).