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[webadict]

@Imp:  You have it backwards.  The reason I asked was because my role cannot be affected by certain types of Actions, including gaining Abilities or Conditions.  Don't think about it too hard.  You also have a list of three people who didn't know what Pirate was as an alignment.

As for the Miller stuff, that was me saying that I don't claim my Miller status because I'd rather prove someone targeted me than not.  I might be a Miller.  I might not be a Miller.  There is no way to know for sure whether I am unless you Inspect me.

@ToonyMan:  My being dumb or not has nothing to do with my being Town.  EuchreJack is likely to be Town for a lot of reasons, but it is easily deduced that EuchreJack isn't on a team.  It's also likely that Mafia does exist.

If it makes you feel better, though, I don't want to go after you because I'm a Cop that can see past Miller Abilities.

@Maximum Spin:  My only reason that I said alignment changes might exist is that I'm immune to having my Alignment changed, but that could always be a bit of a red herring.

[Maximum Spin]

I don't see the relevance of what ToonyMan's saying, but I do consider it a law of the universe that a Jack that smiles back is probably scum, while a Jack that you really hope is scum so you can lynch him so he stops being obnoxious is always town.

[Egan_BW]

Hi, wouldn't it be funny if I didn't have anything to say about all that wasted breath? Wuba thinks that my role having the alignment colors in it means I'm scum, which is dumb and needs to be reconsidered.

I'd post an RTD turn but it's too much effort.

[Egan_BW]

I'd also skim back through the thread to see if any scumhunting can be done, but again, too much effort. Got a virtual tabletop RPG session soon.

[webadict]

Hi, wouldn't it be funny if I didn't have anything to say about all that wasted breath? Wuba thinks that my role having the alignment colors in it means I'm scum, which is dumb and needs to be reconsidered.

I'd post an RTD turn but it's too much effort.

No, that's not right.  It's the assumption that EuchreJack's role had red colors in it that makes you scum, but I can't prove that until Fallacy posts example PMs.

[Jim Groovester]

If it helps, I have what I consider to be very strong meta-reasons to believe that cults don't exist if Fallacy doesn't want to be punched.

That's all.

Good.

---

I literally know Pirates are a kind of mafia because they're red in my role, just like how a mafia team would be displayed. If Jim shoots me it will show up in my role flip as the Auto ability I have and then everyone will know and not just Imp and Egan. Imp is seeing the same thing I'm seeing here, I think they're being very genuine. Egan I'm not as sure about, but they at least know too so maybe it's something in their role as well. I don't think Egan is claiming they know the Pirate is Red thing specifically because they're Mafia, but probably because of something inside their role, like with me or Imp.

What is Jack mechanically if cults aren't in this game but he is scum? Solo mafia? Scum on a pirate mafia team?

[webadict]

@Egan_BW:  Why did you post this to EuchreJack?

I'll give you a reason to insult me then.

If your role says that you inspect as pirate, then you know that pirate is red. I think it's more likely that you knew that already and were just assuming that none of US knew.

It seems both counterintuitive and counterproductive to kick EuchreJack while he's freaking out like that, and I'm not sure how you could possibly know what EuchreJack received in an assumed scum PM unless you understood what a scum PM looked like.  I don't want to push rules or meta in this game, but you keep bringing it up, so the point is that our role PMs only have the color of our alignments in them, and if EuchreJack got a role PM, then it only contained the green Town alignment.  It's entirely possible that scum and third party PMs received slightly different information, such as a win condition (Like that all of the Town, Pirates, and Hunters must be dead to win) or another piece of information that wasn't given to Town, but I did not want to explain that because it is potentially rule-violating.

[Egan_BW]

Because if his PM mentions the pirate alignment at all, then pirate is in color, like this:
"You inspect as the Pirate alignment."

And I poked EJ because I was annoyed that he didn't want to insult me, and to clarify my reason for voting him. He has an ability which says (something like) that, but pretended to not know that Pirates appear as a scum team, and just brazenly attempted to recruit said people to said SCUM TEAM.

[Lenglon]

Web: This is in line with what I'd thought you were talking about before. My question still stands - why not Imp? If Egan is scummy for knowing the color of pirates, why isn't Imp scummy for the same thing?

also what does this have to do with dorf?

[Egan_BW]

If you want to think that me knowing that makes me scum, then fine. But KILLING EJ FIRST IS IMPORTANT HERE.
By his own claims, if you don't launch him day 1, then he'll recruit three players to his pirate-cult.

[Maximum Spin]

I'd also like to note that, based on my reading of the OP and impression of how Fallacy likes to color-code things, a Pirate-Ally or Pirate-Hunter would likely also be colored like that. Well, I made it maroon so Web won't yell at me like he did Tric.

This answers one of Lenglon's questions if you think about it hard enough.

[webadict]

I'd also like to note that, based on my reading of the OP and impression of how Fallacy likes to color-code things, a Pirate-Ally or Pirate-Hunter would likely also be colored like that. Well, I made it maroon so Web won't yell at me like he did Tric.

This answers one of Lenglon's questions if you think about it hard enough.

This is possibly true, but also I can't be sure about this one.  In FBYOR5, as a Mafia-ally, I was entirely colored Orange.

Web: This is in line with what I'd thought you were talking about before. My question still stands - why not Imp? If Egan is scummy for knowing the color of pirates, why isn't Imp scummy for the same thing?

also what does this have to do with dorf?

Oh, right, I haven't posted my diatribe about why EJ is not scum, which included a bit about you.  I actually don't have a good answer to that, and I changed my mind about finding you suspicious.  I saw some reasonable points you made.  I guess I just don't really understand the case on Imp.

[notquitethere]

Busy two days, but now catching up on the thread. Want to get a feel for the dynamics unfolding. Before I enter a flashback, here's an bold and exciting role claim:

Spoiler: Identity reveal in this issue! (click to show/hide)

I'm town and I inspect as town.

[Maximum Spin]

I'd also like to note that, based on my reading of the OP and impression of how Fallacy likes to color-code things, a Pirate-Ally or Pirate-Hunter would likely also be colored like that. Well, I made it maroon so Web won't yell at me like he did Tric.

This answers one of Lenglon's questions if you think about it hard enough.

This is possibly true, but also I can't be sure about this one.  In FBYOR5, as a Mafia-ally, I was entirely colored Orange.

Yep, the OP makes Mafia-Allies orange and "Other-Allies" bicolor. I don't know for sure that it would sub in the color of the faction, but it seems like a Very Fallacy Thing to Do.

[Lenglon]

I just don't get what makes this:

One of my abilities lists a couple alignments. Town is green, mafia and pirates are red, and hunter is blue. So pirates are a second scum team.

a bigger problem than this:

...

Crystalizedmire:

It seems like pirates has a convert role and are most likely cults:

This could be, but if so they really revealed a lot early.  Stuff that probably didn't help their actual wincons, if the people revealing it didn't either 1) have to and 2) were talking about themself and not trying to set up for other stuff.  So I hugely wonder about why and how we can find out.  Since in my dreams Pirates were red, I do think they are scum and must die, converters or any other kind of scum.

I do wonder if we know there is conversion or if we guess and run with guesses.  I also know I do not not not want to be converted myself.

...

We should, based on what I have been told, treat that as equivalent to EuchreJack offering to nominate folks into the mafia team - it's just the other scumteam, if that is what red means.  Based on the wording of my PM, it is also possible that there are scum teams that do not yet exist, or there may be more than 2.

They seem like the same reveal to me.


Max: Dorf had only made two tiny posts before Web called him out:

Spoiler: here they are (click to show/hide)

I can remove the role of another player once per game.

Yes, this is permanent.  Yes, this is busted.  No, I couldn't not claim it.  No, I can't save it for later.

Please pick who should be the target, because they will be effectively removed from the Night game.

You can't save it for later? You actually mean that?

Secretdorf: What is the purpose of RVS? Does it actually help find scum? How?

Purpose is to start things off. It actually does contribute to scumhunting although the extent is debatable. Conversation generally helps catch scum and and it generates conversation.

I did not ask everyone a question, specifically. If I didn't ask you a specific question, what's your impression of that?

No one can blame you for that in an 18p game.

... and 13 new posts.

Secretdorf: What is the proper number of RVS questions to ask?

How would I know? 5? However many you can easily come with?

Another Dorf hiding the fact that they're playing forum mafia by not posting. Congrats, I almost forgot you existed.

Yeah, thanks for noticing me, I guess.

Also, Jack, did the PM not have the mafia wincon, you win if pirates outnumber town and other mafia is eliminated, or something like that?

Anyway, we're probably down one scumteam, one left; and an SK maybe.

I will also say this: if at some point you need a votecount (and you are not EuchreJack), feel free to ask me, if I see the request before mamobo or fallacy do, I'll do it, you know, out of goodwill.

I don't see anything about being a hunter or knowing the colors or whatever in that. The most noteworthy things I saw were a misquote that looked like he broke the formatting tags by accident, him proposing a candidate phrasing for a mafia wincon, and him coloring the word goodwill green for unknown reasons.

I get your implication that Secretdorf might be a pirate-hunter, but I don't see the logic behind it as of when Web called him out. Did I miss a post or something?