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[Imp]

Imp, what happened to you being sure EJ was town??

Jim's super-wise requirement that the invites be public before end of D1, and that we hunt EJ until death if not.  Followed by EJ's previous statement that he has 3 invites.  Followed by weirdly 2, though he was hunting for the third.... until he found me.  Then weirdly not looking for 3 anymore.  And secret about the third.

Himself?

Not actually in the scum team chat, not actually scum, able to self-invite?  Reason to look for the gifts giver?

Or my 'Webadict wants me to go silent about' concern about weirdness.  Everyone heard it, I hope.  Nobody forgets it, I hope.

But I wonder if 'only 2' because there's only room for 2.  Because EuchreJack needs a spot, and now knows it (and was innocent of what he'd see when he gets in there, the stuff I know 'existing at start scum teams were shown' is maybe in there, where he can't see it).  Or if a spot did get taken by Webadict, who for whatever reason then said wouldn't work on him.

Also also, please ask Fallacy how mechanically your team chat works, because depending on how it works, you could possibly use it on me.

I don't see EuchreJack answering in the thread.  A very short time later a flurry of short posts from Webadict, getting votes on Egan_BW, many participate, and Webadict flipping out about me discussing my concerns about the behavior change and its timing.

Probably going to invite Max and Web.

If you invite me, I will have to break my post restriction, which is...  Not what I want to do.  For a lot of reasons.

Also,

@Maximum Spin:  My only reason that I said alignment changes might exist is that I'm immune to having my Alignment changed, but that could always be a bit of a red herring.

Early game web had said had reason to think there are alignment changes.  Now is happy to say why thinks so.... after alignment change?  Redirect, get any idea that he is now recruited out of people's heads, ready to survive if EuchreJack goes down, the new 'three' recruits go down, and can't be webadict, never recruited.

I don't want that forgotten, that maybe that could have happened.  I don't know that it did.

But maybe EuchreJack can only invite 2 now, because one invite got used.

Before that point, EuchreJack was really clear he had 3 and pretty open about who to invite.

So I'm scared again.

Meanwhile, Webadict doesn't want EuchreJack to reveal or confirm any invitees.

States I'm not one of them, even though it's been publicly discussed between EuchreJack and I that I am going to be 'offered' a slot, acts surprised when EuchreJack confirms intends to invite me and Jim.

Yeah. I don't want that invite any more.  I'm too scared.  This looks too trap.

Then Webadict said wouldn't work on him.

I'm now happy with a EuchreJack lynch.  Things look too wrong.  "Thanks" for trying to save me after my probable conversion, Webadict, if that's how/why you missed my entire discussion with EuchreJack about why invite me.

We got anything else to discuss before we hammer?

I don't know that killing that probable converter stops the conversions.  The claim's that the request is already made, and goes off D1.

But who knows what is true.

[webadict]

I would much rather use my inspect on someone, but I would be okay voting Canadian.

Wait, what happened to your vanillizer being so important that you absolutely had to put it to a vote and use it tonight so it couldn't fall into scum hands?

Well...  It was more of a way to get people talking than anything else.  It is a strong ability, but I don't actually fear it falling into scum hands, for... multiple reasons.  The problem is that my Inspect is actually the real strongest ability I have, and I don't foresee an instance where I would actually want to use my Vanillafier except in some extreme conditions.  I was more torn on whether I was going to claim the Inspect, but then I kinda just shrugged my shoulders and said "Eh, why not?"

@Imp:  I feel like I answer questions more than once for you, but I have an Ability that stops alignment changes.  My post restriction causes me to be immune to things.  I have explained this before, and you keep.  Not.  Listening.  And that's.  Why.  I don't.  Want to.  Talk.  To.  You.  Because if I break my post restriction.  I lose a lot of protection.  It is a relatively simple conclusion.  And yet.  For some reason.  It does not appear to apply the same.  Laws.  Of Logic.  At all times.  For I.  do not live. in--.  We are done discussing.  Is that clear?

[The Canadian kitten]

Canadian: Okay, final one, could you please tell me, in depth, about the skilled veteran player Hector13?

I expect my role will vex a lot of people. I also expect we shall be speaking as aristocrats before long, and a joyous day it will be indeed when that moment arrives

Suggests that Hector possibly has a role that can impose posting restrictions/annoyances that will cause issues to targeted player.
Hector exercises caution and prefers to wait till new information reveals itself
Hector pushes for a lynch on Jack for catching a potential scum, or gaining information on other players. They don't care about policy lynches and would gladly stand by Jack's lynch even if they get lynched for it.
Hector considers Sofa to be more suspicious than me and presented evidence why, and pushed for a potential lynch.

A case for town and scum can be argued I think.
For Town: Pushes multiple lynches, would gladly get lynched even if Jack get lynched and flip town. Present evidence for pushing potential lynches, by using the suspicious player behaviour.
For Scum: Trying to move attention off me and use me as a shield. Since I am town, and when I flip town. Could possibly protect Hector and make people think they're town.
Not the indepth you asked for. But, I'm not quite sure how to go further indepth on Hector.

[Imp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1AD6LPmJO4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1AD6LPmJO4

[The Canadian kitten]

Lenglon: i'm sure that you're going to say that the timing of my post is suspicious but I've just been working on it/revising it during majority of the time I was online but not posting anything.

[notquitethere]

... This action is an alignment inspect on you, and the inspect is guaranteed to be correct.  That is always a win for a Town player.

If you claimed that part before then I missed it! Yes please, go ahead an inspect me if that's what you want to do. I'm glad you clarified what your action was, because I was considering taking defensive action on the assumption you were planning on role-obliterating me, but I guess I won't if you're claiming a helpful action. Unless these actions are the same thing...?

You're going to need context for this one NQT, it's not about a scumslip in a post, it's activity pattern. Up until that point Canadian had made a total of two posts for all of day 1, including RVS. Then when I got some votes put on them they suddenly came back with a flurry of activity. In that flurry of activity they listed their top 3 scumreads as the three main wagons other than themselves at the time, but when asked why couldn't provide plausible justification. Then as the pressure dialed down I maintained follow-up with them, asking them to provide evaluations of individuals. The first eval was of anyone they chose, and they chose Elephant and found them towny, which is fine on on its own but I would expect new scum to pick someone outside their scumteam and find them towny to that kind of open prompt. Then I specifically asked about sofanthial after praising their eval of elephant, sofanthial was being found scummy for mild reason at best at the time, and there was barely any pressure on Canadian at the time. They responded by voting sofanthial after finding them vaguely scummy. Finally I asked them about Hector13, my top suspect for their scumbuddy. They have not responded.
Hector the whole time this was occuring was deflecting people to literally go after any other lurker, and even started the sofanthial wagon in the first place. If the two are partners it explains both of them near-perfectly.
I do NOT have a case on Hector as an individual at this time, so I want Canadian lynched, not Hector. IF Canadian flips scum, then I'll have foĺlow up.

This is good stuff. I like this a lot. I'm willing to go all in on Canadian Kitten with you during the EOD panic vote phase if everyone decides to mass vote Jim or someone.


Imp, that's a lot more clarity about mindset than I've seen from EJ.

[hector13]

NQT: Canadian

You're going to need context for this one NQT, it's not about a scumslip in a post, it's activity pattern. Up until that point Canadian had made a total of two posts for all of day 1, including RVS. Then when I got some votes put on them they suddenly came back with a flurry of activity. In that flurry of activity they listed their top 3 scumreads as the three main wagons other than themselves at the time, but when asked why couldn't provide plausible justification. Then as the pressure dialed down I maintained follow-up with them, asking them to provide evaluations of individuals. The first eval was of anyone they chose, and they chose Elephant and found them towny, which is fine on o
its own but I would expect new scum to pick someone outside their scumteam and find them towny to that kind of open prompt. Then I specifically asked about sofanthial after praising their eval of elephant, sofanthial was being found scummy for mild reason at best at the time, and there was barely any pressure on Canadian at the time. They responded by voting sofanthial after finding them vaguely scummy. Finally I asked them about Hector13, my top suspect for their scumbuddy. They have not responded.
Hector the whole time this was occuring was deflecting people to literally go after any other lurker, and even started the sofanthial wagon in the first place. If the two are partners it explains both of them near-perfectly.
I do NOT have a case on Hector as an individual at this time, so I want Canadian lynched, not Hector. IF Canadian flips scum, then I'll have foĺlow up.

I find myself hoping Esteemed The Canadian kitten flips scum because I really want to see you spin my distaste for Lynch All Lurkers into a case for me being scum.

PPE: @Esteemed The Canadian kitten: note I did not push for a lynch on Esteemed sofanthiel, I pointed out what they were doing in the game that made me more suspicious of them than other lurkers. I have no interest in lynching anyone if the main thrust of the case against them is “has not posted much”.

[EuchreJack]

Well, I doubt any of this means anything, but here goes:

It seemed rather obvious to me that, by declaring 2 out of 3 of the pirate chat members, those 2 known pirate chat members could name the 3rd. Plus we could strategize as to whether to give a real or fake 3rd member name.  A bit of scumhunting could be done by seeing whether or not the pirate chat was secured. See if anyone seems to know what we know, even though they should not.

Since high strategy is apparently a luxury I can not afford, I am more than willing to disclose the people who I submitted:

Code: [Select]

IN:
Jim
Imp
ElephantParade
It was my intention to suggest that we fakeclaim that Maximum Spin is a member, since I think he could do a decent job acting like he was, and he would be willing to do so.  Sorry Max, it would have been fun.

Now, as has been hinted before, there are "extra perks" to being in the pirate chat.

Remember how Imp was so, so, so afraid of being nightkilled, and I said "no problem?"
...I meant it.

I can protect the members of the pirate chat from being nightkilled. I can protect Jimbo, Imp, and Elephant Parade.

Is there a catch? Yup. They have to tell me who is their night target in order to get the protection.  A small price to pay for immortality, I wager.
It's not like they have to say what their night action actually does.

[The Canadian kitten]

PPE: @Esteemed The Canadian kitten: note I did not push for a lynch on Esteemed sofanthiel, I pointed out what they were doing in the game that made me more suspicious of them than other lurkers. I have no interest in lynching anyone if the main thrust of the case against them is “has not posted much”.

Alright, time to rewrite it then, Thanks.

[webadict]

... This action is an alignment inspect on you, and the inspect is guaranteed to be correct.  That is always a win for a Town player.

If you claimed that part before then I missed it! Yes please, go ahead an inspect me if that's what you want to do. I'm glad you clarified what your action was, because I was considering taking defensive action on the assumption you were planning on role-obliterating me, but I guess I won't if you're claiming a helpful action. Unless these actions are the same thing...?

...But... you acknowledged it...

Web, you're right that reasoning wasn't very good. Two things I want to say: 1. thanks for telling me about your other claims, as I said before, I knew I would have missed a few things skimming to catch up, and I guess that was one of them. 2. I thought it'd be more fun to vote you than EJ. And it was probably more productive? I've learned a few things.

In response to this

You left out the part of me being immune to certain types of actions, and being a Cop that sees through Miller Abilities, but also because your conclusion doesn't make sense.

[Elephant Parade]

I would much rather use my inspect on someone, but I would be okay voting Canadian.

Wait, what happened to your vanillizer being so important that you absolutely had to put it to a vote and use it tonight so it couldn't fall into scum hands?

Well...  It was more of a way to get people talking than anything else.  It is a strong ability, but I don't actually fear it falling into scum hands, for... multiple reasons.  The problem is that my Inspect is actually the real strongest ability I have, and I don't foresee an instance where I would actually want to use my Vanillafier except in some extreme conditions.  I was more torn on whether I was going to claim the Inspect, but then I kinda just shrugged my shoulders and said "Eh, why not?"

Hmm, OK. When the conversation moved on, you kept up the same level of activity instead of taking the chance to go low-profile, so that tracks.

[Lenglon]

Imp: I understand the place you're in really well. You are in a paranoia spiral with nobody to vent to, and nobody you can trust. However, you need to trust yourself more. What's happening right now is the storm of self-doubt you're in is leaving you vulnerable to being manipulated. You're going to instinctively want to grasp the hand of anyone offering you a way out of your fear, even if the path out they offer you isn't real or safe. Right now you're prone to being swayed by weak arguments, as long as they disagree with whatever your current position is, because all your self-doubt is going to hop on and reinforce any argument that disagrees with yourself. You're prone to swapping your vote rapidly, each time the moment you make a new decision, your self-doubt attacking that new position.

You need to calm down, and trust your past self more.

So with the situation you're in, the critical question for you is if you can trust Jack or not.
Reasons yes: lock-and-key design with your role, as you stated in the past. If Jack is telling the truth, then they represent a way for you to become elevated to your maximum effectiveness.
Reasons no: Pirate affiliation. You are afraid that your alignment will be converted if you accept Jack's offer.

So here's my question to you: if Jack was offering a triple-alignment-conversion, what are the odds that at least one of the people converted are Mafia?
Players cannot be two different types of scum at the same time, and scum are immune to alignment changes. It's a standard ruling in these games, but feel free to ask Fal about it.
If even one Mafia was able to get into the pirate chat, then the mafia would know the entire Pirate scumteam, but the Pirates wouldn't know who the Mafia are. Because the biggest threat to a scumteam is another scumteam, the Mafia would then hunt down and wipe out the Pirates in a similar way to what happened in BYOR 16.
additionally, notice Max's claim that if there were a cult this game, Max would be in it.

I sincerely doubt that Jack can change your alignment.

[webadict]

I trust Lenglon the most right now.

[webadict]

The Canadian kitten.  Lenglon, take my vote!  Do with it as you please!  A voice of reason in my time of despair!

[notquitethere]

... This action is an alignment inspect on you, and the inspect is guaranteed to be correct.  That is always a win for a Town player.

If you claimed that part before then I missed it! Yes please, go ahead an inspect me if that's what you want to do. I'm glad you clarified what your action was, because I was considering taking defensive action on the assumption you were planning on role-obliterating me, but I guess I won't if you're claiming a helpful action. Unless these actions are the same thing...?

...But... you acknowledged it...

Web, you're right that reasoning wasn't very good. Two things I want to say: 1. thanks for telling me about your other claims, as I said before, I knew I would have missed a few things skimming to catch up, and I guess that was one of them. 2. I thought it'd be more fun to vote you than EJ. And it was probably more productive? I've learned a few things.

In response to this

You left out the part of me being immune to certain types of actions, and being a Cop that sees through Miller Abilities, but also because your conclusion doesn't make sense.

Haha so I did. I should really start writing one of my spreadsheets for this game, I clearly can't keep track of all this stuff just mentally. So are you planning on obliterating my role or no?


Despite the fact EuchreJack hasn't actually answered my question, the public attempt to hold back info for fancy play is a classic town impulse. With the full crew list, I'm happy to give this another day.

I like Lenglon's proactive, seeking play, pulling out a player from obscurity and trying to encourage others onto it. That feels like town play to me and I'm willing to support it. Canadian Kitten

I'm going to bed now. Don't eliminate me in my sleep ok.