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[Man of Paper]

I said it in the core thread and I'll say it here:

Act more like a team. If you're not actually willing to collaborate on ideas then this problem is going to follow you to any team you switch to. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you the individual wants, but you the collective. Find out what you can agree on and start from there. And don't do any more fuckin' personal insults, bickering, and inciting. We're adults. Let's pretend like we know what that involves.

[Maxim_inc]

I said it in the core thread and I'll say it here:

Act more like a team. If you're not actually willing to collaborate on ideas then this problem is going to follow you to any team you switch to. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you the individual wants, but you the collective. Find out what you can agree on and start from there. And don't do any more fuckin' personal insults, bickering, and inciting. We're adults. Let's pretend like we know what that involves.

The problem is we're split 48/48/2 in terms of votes. There isn't much compromise to be found here when both sides has laid out their intentions and have agreed that they don't intermesh in any way. I'd rather just save the trouble if we're going to butt heads every single time, since they have expressed their intentions to follow similar design lines in further designs as well.

[TricMagic]

Well. What would be your ideas beyond the standard rifle design?

[Maxim_inc]

Well. What would be your ideas beyond the standard rifle design?

General usage of traditional design philosophies with the injection of minor stretches of reality, so an ICE engine and hydraulics capable of powering a mech. But with normal usage of gunpowder propellent for most things, the most crazy in terms of ammunition for artillery being something like.... tesla shells or acidic fillers. Are there even any rules of warfare in this world in terms of what can be shot at people?

[m1895]

There is a third option neither side has mentioned hating

[Maxim_inc]

There is a third option neither side has mentioned hating

I'd rather just use regular exploding bullets if this world has no laws of war against it than rocket shells.

[TricMagic]

There is a third option neither side has mentioned hating

Will note I dislike the rocket gun for being a bit much, difficulty wise. Rocket Fuel was invented in 1926, 14 theoretical years from now.

... Main issue is Fallacy has already made their case clear. They joined the south to push crazy ideas. So whatever would prove a compromise between the two factions.

This is probably crazy me talking Maxim, so don't take the following as my actual suggestions.
Some form of matter conversion to energy. (Fission, not really applicable)
A method of enhanced explosive. (Not viable given it's just added difficulty just to be different?)
A superfluid device imparting rotational energy into kinetic on bullets. (Hydropunk idea, bit too far out.)

Some form of combination Air and Explosive rifle. (Thermobaric rifles which use a canister and spark to produce explosive force to propel a bullet, rather than traditional gunpower. Different method, same result. Bit of stretching, but has no carbon build up. Slower fire rate however and is unlikely to ever be automatic, even if the explosive gas can be compressed for greater force than traditional firearms?


Thermobaric would be a mix of gunpower and air. A different weapon, that relies on stronger explosions and focuses on greater force that traditional weapons at the cost of firing speed.

Ninja_inc

Main issue is our side doesn't want to follow the traditional path. So a bit of sci-fi allowance is needed for compromise. (Thermobaric might be crazy.)

[m1895]

Rocket Fuel was invented in 1926

No, the first liquid-fueled rocket was invented in 1926, solid propellant has been used literal centuries.

[Maxim_inc]

Will note I dislike the rocket gun for being a bit much, difficulty wise. Rocket Fuel was invented in 1926, 14 theoretical years from now.

... Main issue is Fallacy has already made their case clear. They joined the south to push crazy ideas. So whatever would prove a compromise between the two factions.
Ninja_inc

Main issue is our side doesn't want to follow the traditional path. So a bit of sci-fi allowance is needed for compromise. (Thermobaric might be crazy.)

Yes and myself and others joined to push more grounded ideas. There really isn't a compromise between the views.

[FallacyofUrist]

Alright. If we can't agree on a coherent design philosophy between historical realism and ahistorical surrealism, at all, then we can at least agree on our disagreement.

Let's just put the weighted dice system into play permanently. That way we still have an incentive to gather votes, but we don't need to reach a consensus in order for the moderator to resolve our Design actions.

Sure, some number of us are going to be unhappy about the results of the dice, but at least we'll agree that it's fair, if we all agreed to put the system into play to begin with.

There's also the disadvantage of the lack of coherency, but if we weren't going to get that anyways, we may as well agree on a method of deciding Designs / Revisions that doesn't require us to reach consensus.

[Maxim_inc]

Let's just put the weighted dice system into play permanently. That way we still have an incentive to gather votes, but we don't need to reach a consensus in order for the moderator to resolve our Design actions.

Ew.

[TricMagic]

Brandsalz Rifle
The Brandsalz makes use of an white ash handle and 18 inch steel barrel with flared end for releasing the explosion. Atop the back is a solid steel attachment which uses a compressed aerosol derived from black powder. When the trigger is puled, it is released into the barrel as a spark is made, resulting in an instant explosion that propels the bullet forward. This slams shut the opened connection until the trigger is pulled next. Boasting an amazing amount of power behind each shot, it easily reaches 2200 meters, with an effective range of 800 meters. Spiraling grooves are carved into the barrel to give it accuracy. This gun requires no cleaning besides ensuring no debris has built up, and can fire 500 shots before needing to be refueled. However, the nature of the design requires each bullet to be loaded by hand down the barrel. As such bullets have been shaped to be long and pointed, easy to slide down the barrel without worry.

Brandsalz Rifles are made to fail safely. Should the cannister burst, the plates involved in releasing the gas will be pushed open from the inside, releasing the explosion down the barrel. It should at least allow the user to survive. It's firing mechanism makes use of explosions traveling faster than the gas itself to maintain the seal between shots. Note that failing Safely is subjective, since most cases would be the result of the plating being shot. But you have other issues if you get shot, and these rifles boast impressive range and punch.

Brandsalz Rifles have one other, more dangerous advantage. The use of aerosol explosives means that they can be fired without a bullet, the close range shockwave proving devastating to anything in the immediate vicinity. This can replace bayonets as options, and while the range isn't any better, it's considerably more lethal. Proper care should be taken not to point them at allies.

Spoiler: Grammerly Version (click to show/hide)

Brandsalz Rifle

The Brandsalz Rifle features a white ash handle and an 18-inch steel barrel with a flared end to release the explosion. On top of the back, there is a solid steel attachment that uses a compressed aerosol, derived from black powder. When the trigger is pulled, the compressed aerosol is released into the barrel, and a spark is made, resulting in an instant explosion that propels the bullet forward. This shuts the opened connection until the trigger is pulled again.

The gun has a lot of power behind each shot, and it can easily reach a distance of 2200 meters, with an effective range of 800 meters. The barrel has spiraling grooves, which give it accuracy. The rifle requires no cleaning, except for ensuring that no debris has built up, and it can fire 500 shots before needing to be refueled. However, the design requires each bullet to be loaded by hand down the barrel, and the bullets are shaped to be long and pointed, making them easy to slide down the barrel.

Brandsalz Rifles are designed to fail safely. If the canister bursts, the plates involved in releasing the gas will be pushed open from the inside, releasing the explosion down the barrel. The firing mechanism makes use of explosions traveling faster than the gas itself to maintain the seal between shots. It should at least allow the user to survive, but note that failing safely is subjective since most cases would be the result of the plating being shot. Nonetheless, these rifles boast impressive range and punch.

Brandsalz Rifles have one other, more dangerous advantage. The use of aerosol explosives means that they can be fired without a bullet. The close-range shockwave proves devastating to anything in the immediate vicinity, and this can replace bayonets as options. While the range isn't any better, it's considerably more lethal. Proper care should be taken not to point them at allies.

Might want someone more level headed and willing to go over this madness at... 7:50 PM. It's mad tricks.
Fun fact, this is apparently German for Fire Salt.

[FallacyofUrist]

Oh yes, it's very ew

I think we can agree on that.

If we look at the alternative, though...

Tric: Let's make a mortar that shoots glass balls that explode in the air and rain glass dust down to screw with machines and kill people that breathe it!
Maxim: wtf no that's unrealistic and impractical, glass would shatter inside the mortar tube
Fallacy: I like Tric's idea
Thanatos: Why would you like Tric's idea, it's completely unreasonable, let's invent the completely historical MR-9 generic mortar tube, in exquisite detail
Maxim: that's so practical, +1 to that
Fallacy: But that's so boring!

And so on... and so forth.

We need to either, A, find a way to meld our two design philosophies (and I'm not seeing a good way to do that right now)
--Addendum: The melding of the design philosophies must be satisfying and fun for both 'internal teams' we have here. That's the biggest issue.
Or B, find a way to get designs through even though we don't have proper consensus and will continue to not have proper consensus. Which is the idea to permanently put weighted-die voting in play.

[TricMagic]

I won't mind finding some way to do Hydropunk, but I don't feel it's this game.

Also, I'd use explosive shells that blow up above the enemy. With glass payload. (jokingly) The explosive force will cause more injuries than the glass.

Thermobaric Rifle> Thermobaric Munitions for fuel-air mortar bombs. War Crimes.

Ironically, those two things you described could go hand in hand. Since Mortar/Ammo.

[Maxim_inc]

I'd rather not force us to try and balance some voting dice system that everyone is unhappy with because neither side can agree on a compromise. Its a horrible thing that makes MoP mad but I'd rather just switch teams and end any and all future arguments here since there is clearly no compromise and I doubt MoP is gonna give us another week to sort it out.