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[TricMagic]

We need to justify it though. We could get to those things, but we need to setup a semi-plausable tech base first. Compressed Air Weaponry gives us high-pressure metallurgy and Steam Power, which are important zteps towards the precision machining and high-voltage electricity we'd need for Railguns.

I'd give a thumbs up emote to this if it was discord. 
Go full tech. I just want interesting things besides Gun M27.

[Maxim_inc]

Being a bit negative Maxim. I get where you're coming from, but there are interesting ways to use it, and it's based in historical fact. Some of the first Artillery was pneumonic.
Compression can scale with the strength of materials btw. Just use more compression to get more bang. (Hopefully not literal bang.)

The first artillery was not Pneumonic, it was gunpowder or manual tension. Pneumatic Dynamite Guns only existed because no one had gotten dynamite stable enough yet to be fired and resist the shock of firing without exploding in the barrel. The farthest these guns ever got in range was 2km with compressors the size of Naval Destroyers. This is a tech dead end even with as much rule of cool we apply to it. MoP is a GM that can be just as realistic as he can allow things to slide, I'd rather not give him the chance to make up new and amazing ways for us to fail.

Unless your planning on giving all our men advanced aluminum alloy tanks or ones made up of Titanium this isn't going to scale beyond a rifle in terms of compression for the simple fact that pressure needed to propel an object scales with the size of it. Also a 100 shot tank? Soldiers in real combat are going to be firing triple that in an intense engagement not to mention going on patrol or being cut off. Ammunition can be supplied and caried easier with less logistical issues.

This is just handicapping us for no reason when things like Mechs or precision tools and electricity are all things we can get without it.

[TricMagic]

You speak like it's already rolled snake eyes. I note you do not deny the M27 claim. Rather than retreating old ground, I want something new and fresh.

[Maxim_inc]

You speak like it's already rolled snake eyes. I note you do not deny the M27 claim. Rather than retreating old ground, I want something new and fresh.

You can claim making a sharp stick is the Stick Mark 97865A3. Hell Air Rifles was something tried in real life during the Napoleonic Wars so you're just retreading the ground with this M2 Rifles. I speak like we've already rolled snake eyes because this is a technological dead end not because the rifle is shit.

[The Canadian kitten]

Clearly, the solution here is to bullshit a laser bolt action rifle into existence

[m1895]

Eh fuck it

Betrayal!

Hey at least it's not the steam gun...

[Maxim_inc]

Eh fuck it

Betrayal!

Hey at least it's not the steam gun...

Stares

I can't really rehash all the points I've made before, I'd rather not force ourselves into a deadend or a meme for le funny and le wacky and le different.

Rule of Cool is Rule of COOL. Trusting that to apply to funny air gun or steam rifle feels too ambitious.

[Kashyyk]

The GM has explicitly said he wants us to feel free to explore new ideas and not be constrained by "what worked in our timeline". If you just don't like the vibe of air rifles, that's totally fine and valid, but arguments of "it's a dead end tech" are not viable here.

I'll confess, I don't know much about 1900s air compression technology, so I picked a number that sounded somewhat reasonable. I know an extended firefight will last longer than 100 rounds, hence why they have access to spare canisters and the ability to pump them in the field. I'm expecting the soldier's supply of Ammunition to expire before their supply of air,  and even that one should be inflated (heh) as each round is smaller and ighter less thanks to not needing ito supply its own propellant.

I'm willing to trust that MoP won't screw us over for adhering to his wishes for interesting designs, and instead will give us a good faith result that is competitive. Otherwise he's killing g his own game, which seems to defeat the point of having shared prelim dice rolls.

[Maxim_inc]

The GM has explicitly said he wants us to feel free to explore new ideas and not be constrained by "what worked in our timeline". If you just don't like the vibe of air rifles, that's totally fine and valid, but arguments of "it's a dead end tech" are not viable here.

I'll confess, I don't know much about 1900s air compression technology, so I picked a number that sounded somewhat reasonable. I know an extended firefight will last longer than 100 rounds, hence why they have access to spare canisters and the ability to pump them in the field. I'm expecting the soldier's supply of Ammunition to expire before their supply of air,  and even that one should be inflated (heh) as each round is smaller and ighter less thanks to not needing ito supply its own propellant.

I'm willing to trust that MoP won't screw us over for adhering to his wishes for interesting designs, and instead will give us a good faith result that is competitive. Otherwise he's killing g his own game, which seems to defeat the point of having shared prelim dice rolls.

I've been waiting for a normal-ish setting for someone to run for a long time now, to just make semi-realistic weapons in a 1900's setting that doesn't have any crazy strings attached. And its just being thrown away for the sake of "Lets make a unique rifle because funni". This is literally the exact setting I've been waiting for someone to run since Sensei's last game and its just... being defeated for no reason.

[FallacyofUrist]

Ah. In that case, I can completely understand your frustration. However, I think there's been a misunderstanding.

This isn't exactly a 'World War 1 but with looser tech limits' Arms Race.

Greatest War Arms Race is an Arms Race based in an alternate universe on a planet of humans about to enter their equivalent of our World War I. The setting is a fairly flexible medium science fiction: as long as you can give a reason why something should work (more than "because it can") then it should be possible. If you're not sure about the viability of a proposal, you can always ask and I'll let you know if it's at least within the scope of the game, with a little more advice at the start.

The key words here are 'The setting is a fairly flexible medium science fiction.'

This is a science fiction Arms Race that just happens to start with World War 1 level tech, and escalates from there. Mad Arms Race lite, basically.

I'm sorry if this isn't what you hoped for, but I don't believe this is intended to be heavily historical themed, at least in the medium to long term. It's only historical initially.

[Maxim_inc]

Ah. In that case, I can completely understand your frustration. However, I think there's been a misunderstanding.

This isn't exactly a 'World War 1 but with looser tech limits' Arms Race.

Greatest War Arms Race is an Arms Race based in an alternate universe on a planet of humans about to enter their equivalent of our World War I. The setting is a fairly flexible medium science fiction: as long as you can give a reason why something should work (more than "because it can") then it should be possible. If you're not sure about the viability of a proposal, you can always ask and I'll let you know if it's at least within the scope of the game, with a little more advice at the start.

The key words here are 'The setting is a fairly flexible medium science fiction.'

This is a science fiction Arms Race that just happens to start with World War 1 level tech, and escalates from there. Mad Arms Race lite, basically.

I'm sorry if this isn't what you hoped for, but I don't believe this is intended to be heavily historical themed.

And you know what, I'd rather have something dieselpunk than "Funny Air Rifle" because at least we can work that into more realistic understandings of how things work. Air Rifle's aren't science fiction, its remarkably non-fiction- hell steam rifles fit better into that category.

Hell if I had to guess Medium Science Fiction means mechs and silly vehicles, hell maybe even tesla rifles, more than it does "Lets make an air rifle guys."

[TricMagic]

Yeah, but le compromise. You've been giving steam reasons not to be picked, someone provided a more reasonable starting choice, and we voted for it. Much as you and the others voted the M12. Just how these games work?

Diselpunk... Eh, prefer steampunk. Or whatever you'd call a kingdom focused on pneumatics and hydraulics. Might be disel, not sure

I'm still more interested in the Windgun than the M12gun, version 7076. (M gets used as designations so much in these games..)

[FallacyofUrist]

Ironically, trying to build an entirely realistic tech base would probably handicap us much more than experimenting would. The more complex and reaching design, the more painful the roll penalty, but on the flip side, the potential for technological growth is increased.

I'm just imagining rolling into No Man's Land with our trucks and normal bolt action rifles and machine guns, and suddenly we get blasted out of existence because the enemy developed bouncing, multi-explosion payloads for their mortars.

There's just no reason whatsoever to limit ourselves to what's historically accurate for the time period, beyond the level of reach and risk involved. So no laser rifles just yet, but air guns, steam guns, and maybe even coilguns are on the table. It's not just coolness, physics is entirely bendable, so let's use it.

Alssssso... Tric has a point about the naming, designs with names that stand out more and better describe the design, I at least enjoy more.

[Maxim_inc]

Yeah, but le compromise. You've been giving steam reasons not to be picked, someone provided a more reasonable starting choice, and we voted for it. Much as you and the others voted the M12. Just how these games work?

Diselpunk... Eh, prefer steampunk. Or whatever you'd call a kingdom focused on pneumatics and hydraulics. Might be disel, not sure

I'm still more interested in the Windgun than the M12gun, version 7076. (M gets used as designations so much in these games..)

A windgun isn't a compromise, its just choosing a different disability.

Pneumatics and Hydraulics is Hydro-Punk.

You're bashing literally the most standard version of nomenclature used in the world because its boring. Would you vote for it if I named it the "Mega-Shooter XL Generation 1"? Because I can do that.

Ironically, trying to build an entirely realistic tech base would probably handicap us much more than experimenting would. The more complex and reaching design, the more painful the roll penalty, but on the flip side, the potential for technological growth is increased.

I'm just imagining rolling into No Man's Land with our trucks and normal bolt action rifles and machine guns, and suddenly we get blasted out of existence because the enemy developed bouncing, multi-explosion payloads for their mortars.

There's just no reason whatsoever to limit ourselves to what's historically accurate for the time period, beyond the level of reach and risk involved. So no laser rifles just yet, but air guns, steam guns, and maybe even coilguns are on the table. It's not just coolness, physics is entirely bendable, so let's use it.

Alssssso... Tric has a point about the naming, designs with names that stand out more and better describe the design, I at least enjoy more.

What you just described in the mortar is something that has been common place in artillery warfare since gunpowder artillery was invented, its called ricochet shot and its not new at all.

A realistic base doesn't handicap us because it lets us know what actually works and allows us to supercharge it with bent physics, rapid fire automatic artillery didn't work because no one could figure out how to get it to work without exploding until the 1960's.

See above for naming.

[FallacyofUrist]

Re, naming: better, but not really descriptive. Standard nomenclature is practical in reality, but we're playing a forum game. I'd rather mix things up. I'm much more enthusiastic about the 'Killer Queen', but 'Windgun' is at least better than 'M1'.

Re, disability. I don't believe the game master is going to make our steam or air pressure weapons weaker just because that'd be realistic. Realism isn't really the goal here.

Re, technological development. I don't find charting the course of the history of weapons development to be as exciting as developing a whole new alternate tech base from scratch.