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[wad67]

Hello, I have not played the game for some years. I saw it on steam ! Which reminded me that it exists.

I tried the steam version but did not really like it and refunded it as all the keys are different and a lot of the menus are different.  It tends to run slow too.


The last playable version appears to be 47.05, there does not appear to be any linux binaries for the new 50.x version .

If I remember it right, the last version I was playing is 40.0x so I guess there is still 7 versions of new stuff to checkout before the game is unavailable from the enforced control change and lack of binary? It can be played in the proton I think.

What compelled this series of events? I have not kept up to date for 10 years. Is the magic arc done yet?

[Strif3]

KitFox happened. That's all i'll say, lest i invoke their wrath.

[wad67]

KitFox happened. That's all i'll say, lest i invoke their wrath.

This is going to be interesting rabbit hole I think, so this publisher is evil?

I look them up on google, they make 4 games that look like the mobile phone games on facebook or whatever social media it is now.

I am guessing they have lots of money or some good reason for Bay 12 to sign on with them?

[LuuBluum]

For one, ignore the idiot. Whatever "wrath" they're suggesting, here of all places, is asinine because the moderator structure of this forum has not changed in any way.

Two, they're a publisher that Toady personally knew that he decided to work with when he realized that the donation model, while able to keep him and Tarn going for a bit, wouldn't really be able to cover large medical expenses such as a cancer scare that Tarn had at one point.

Three, game's still free. Can download it in the same place as always. Linux version isn't out right now because it's still being worked on, but is currently in a beta branch on the Steam version. Once it's fully done it'll be out both there and the usual place, for free, as always.

[wad67]

For one, ignore the idiot. Whatever "wrath" they're suggesting, here of all places, is asinine because the moderator structure of this forum has not changed in any way.

Two, they're a publisher that Toady personally knew that he decided to work with when he realized that the donation model, while able to keep him and Tarn going for a bit, wouldn't really be able to cover large medical expenses such as a cancer scare that Tarn had at one point.

Three, game's still free. Can download it in the same place as always. Linux version isn't out right now because it's still being worked on, but is currently in a beta branch on the Steam version. Once it's fully done it'll be out both there and the usual place, for free, as always.

Ah well that doesn't seem so bad then, I thought it was some kind of hostile publisher takeover

[TheFlame52]

Toady One now has enough money that he'll never have to worry about money ever again. A considerable portion of it is going to charity.

[wad67]

Will there be a version of the game available with the normal old school keybindings? I haven't tried 50x yet, unless that's the same as the steam version

You can remap some keys in the steam version but it is not the same at all

[LuuBluum]

Efforts are being made to add more keyboard support.

[Ziusudra]

Two, they're a publisher that Toady personally knew that he decided to work with when he realized that the donation model, while able to keep him and Tarn Zach going for a bit, wouldn't really be able to cover large medical expenses such as a cancer scare that Tarn Zach had at one point.

Fixed, ToadyOne is Tarn, ThreeToe is Zach.

Toady One now has enough money that he'll never have to worry about money ever again.

That's over-stating it (especially given the rampant corporate greed being called inflation), they just get to worry a good deal less.

[wad67]

Efforts are being made to add more keyboard support.

I am a bit confused about this? We have / had keyboard support, then it got thrown out? Then adding it back again?

[Ziusudra]

No, a ton of people complained about the old UI, so he made a new one, and now people that some how managed to adapt to the old UI, but can't adapt to the new one, complain about it.

[mikekchar]

Regarding keyboard:  The idea of the Premium (aka Steam) version of DF, was to make it more inclusive for new players.  There have been requests for a "mouse only" UX.  Toady and Three Toe jumped to the conclusion that the original keyboard bindings were too complicated and undesirable.  So Toady redesigned the way the UX worked and replaced all of the keybindings to work well with the mouse (chief amongst it is to have left hand centric movement keybindings with ASDF and to use the mouse for basically everything else).  At the same time he removed all the old keybindings and made it so basically they don't make sense any more (because the menu breakdown and ordering is different).

When it released, quite a few older players were disappointed that the old keybindings didn't work.  Particularly bad is that you can no longer play without a mouse.  Apparently this was an unexpected complaint.  Some older players basically said that they couldn't play the new version at all. 

Tarn has said that he will slowly add the ability to play the game keyboard only.  However, the old keybindings will forever be impossible because the UX has changed so drastically.  He's not open to adding a special UX for older players (which I think is completely reasonable).  It's been a bit of an unfortunate thing.  As an older player who liked the old keybindings, I will say that the new keybindings are subjectively worse IMHO.  The general playability is better, though.  I've completely rebound the keys for myself and I no longer even remember what the default keybindings are.  I think once full keyboard ability returns, it will be just as good, but it will take time (and I'm still pretty negative about the current defaults, but it's very easy to change).

In terms of Linux support, the latest beta version on Steam has native Linux support and it works beautifully.  It should ship very, very soon.  My only complaint is that text mode (i.e. in a terminal) is not currently possible and probably won't come back for a very long time (if ever -- Putnam mentioned that they thought it might be quite difficult).

Again, as an older player, I think the current version is a massive upgrade overall, but there are definite pain points.  I feel sympathy for those who find the new UX unplayable, but it is definitely a very minority opinion.

[wad67]

Regarding keyboard:  The idea of the Premium (aka Steam) version of DF, was to make it more inclusive for new players.  There have been requests for a "mouse only" UX.  Toady and Three Toe jumped to the conclusion that the original keyboard bindings were too complicated and undesirable.  So Toady redesigned the way the UX worked and replaced all of the keybindings to work well with the mouse (chief amongst it is to have left hand centric movement keybindings with ASDF and to use the mouse for basically everything else).  At the same time he removed all the old keybindings and made it so basically they don't make sense any more (because the menu breakdown and ordering is different).

When it released, quite a few older players were disappointed that the old keybindings didn't work.  Particularly bad is that you can no longer play without a mouse.  Apparently this was an unexpected complaint.  Some older players basically said that they couldn't play the new version at all. 

Tarn has said that he will slowly add the ability to play the game keyboard only.  However, the old keybindings will forever be impossible because the UX has changed so drastically.  He's not open to adding a special UX for older players (which I think is completely reasonable).  It's been a bit of an unfortunate thing.  As an older player who liked the old keybindings, I will say that the new keybindings are subjectively worse IMHO.  The general playability is better, though.  I've completely rebound the keys for myself and I no longer even remember what the default keybindings are.  I think once full keyboard ability returns, it will be just as good, but it will take time (and I'm still pretty negative about the current defaults, but it's very easy to change).

In terms of Linux support, the latest beta version on Steam has native Linux support and it works beautifully.  It should ship very, very soon.  My only complaint is that text mode (i.e. in a terminal) is not currently possible and probably won't come back for a very long time (if ever -- Putnam mentioned that they thought it might be quite difficult).

Again, as an older player, I think the current version is a massive upgrade overall, but there are definite pain points.  I feel sympathy for those who find the new UX unplayable, but it is definitely a very minority opinion.

Thank you kindly for explaining what happened, I don't use a mouse to play so that kinda sucks.  I guess I will stick with the older versions of the game. I will wait for full keyboard support and then the inevitable patch / hack to return the control scheme to normal.  I have not been following along with development, if that isn't obvious. But the steam version looks graphically impressive. I would have preferred to have seen the game more fleshed out instead of more accessible but that is not my decision to make.

It seems like the old roadmaps have gone out the window? I remember there being a page that showed what was coming next but I can't find it any more.
On a semi related note, what happened to the chapter 1 3d prototype game? I can no longer find the page for that either. I would very much like to wander around and kick bushes and teleport body-parts again.

EDIT: Found it ! http://www.bay12games.com/armok/download.html

[sodafoutain]

I've been playing DF2014 for a long time and my muscle memory with the UI is good enough to play without the reminders on the right for a majority of options. The lack of precision I get doing designations with a mouse and the changes to the labor system is pretty frustrating. I'll make the jump eventually, because the map rewrite is really appealing to me. AFAIK Toady was talking about watching sieges happen, which would be great because the way siege combat is calculated weighing size so heavily has gotten several iron-clad axelords killed by elephants/trolls, while I'm confident they'd kill them easily if we were getting attacked. Right now the amount of additional features doesn't dissuade my perception of additional cruft added by the mouse centric UI, but keyboard-only support will likely make it feel somewhat better.

[brewer bob]

I guess I will stick with the older versions of the game. I will wait for full keyboard support and then the inevitable patch / hack to return the control scheme to normal.

The latest pre-Steam version, 0.47.05, is still a very enjoyable DF experience and the most "complete" one, imo (since Steam is still missing Adventure mode). There's other players sticking with it for now while waiting for full keyboard support and other things to make it into 0.50, so you won't be the only one.