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[Zonk]

This is a LOOOOOOOOONG list of possible stock races
I known,i ve altready done another a lot of time ago,but since we
now (almost)have the species editor...

For some of them i have written a little description...
Also..i thought about sub-races.....What do i mean as  sub-races?I
don't mean inferior races...i mean...think to different
kinds of humans,like Northern,Easterlings/Oriental,Western....
They are all humans,but there are some differences...
If you think to it...we currently
have creature variations...we could have "sub-races"variations...
...for example,Northern humans would have pale skin and brighter
eyes and hair..of course only in if in the planet the northern
part is colder...
Maybe ToadyOne could implement sub-races just by having normal
races and making them have different cultures and phsycal stats
depending on where they live for example...

Also,sub-races of different races would be handled differently...
For example,one could choose to play a "Normal,Pure"elf,
but not a "Normal,Pure"human,since he would have to choose
between Easterling Human,Northern Human and similar things...
Of course,there could be "mixed"uman,with more "averaged"stats....

Maybe one should choose his race and then he would see
the sub-race selection screen...In this case it would be more
something like a background,maybe...but,remember,in some cases
sub-races would have more than little differences..think for
example to sea elves,who breathe water,while the normal elves
can't.

Well,here's the list:

Normal Humanoids:

Humans
Elves
Dwarves
Gnomes:If im right,they are very smart and very creative,but they
      sometimes make inventions that do not work 100% well..
Leprechauns
Halfling/Hobbit
Giants:There are many kinds of giant,for example...
   Hill Giants
   Fomorian Giants:UGLY giants.
   Stone Giants:Giants with stone-like skin and able to
          pass trough stone.
   Frost Giants:Immune to cold.
   Sea Giants:Giants who live under the sea...obvious...
   Fire Giants:Immune to fire.
   Cloud Giants
   Storm Giants
   

The "Goblinoid"family:
Note that im not sure if kobolds and ogres are goblinoids,but
considering them "dog"beastmen seems a bit bad to me...

Kobolds:The small,green creatures that most of us like to kill..
   I only known of one possible sub-race..
Goblins:Umh..like orcs but smaller...

Orcs:Well...almost everyone knows how an orc is!

Ogres:Basically,bigger orcs...but even more stupid!

The "beastmen"family:
This includes animal/humanoid creatures.

Klackons:I took the idea from some games..They are sentient ants
who can walk upward...
Also,since ants can produce "formic acid",klackons could produce
acid also..but since they are a lot bigger(human-sized)they
could produce a lot more acid(even if weak).

Cat-mens:Of course somebody would like them...

Gnolls:Hyena-like humanoids...

Minotaurs:Well...i mean....everybody knows what they are!

Lizardmans:Maybe there could be differences between the swamp
and desert ones?

Nagas:Four armed with no legs!They crawl...If im right,i think
they are supposed to always be female,but this is a game,so...

Centaurs:Basically,the mytological creatures with an horse body
    and an human torax,head an arms.I also thought to many
    different types of centaurs...think
    Dwarf/big donkey centaur
    Halfling/pony centaur
    Orc or Ogre/bull centaur
    Giant/elepant centaur

Yetis:Well,if they are considered sentient...

"Special","Uncommon"or "Particolar"races,including non-humanoid
non-beastmens:

Ents/Treeents:Moving,thinking,talking trees!

Mind Flayers/Illithids:Four-tentacled,genius-like,
              creatures who eat brains!

Dragons:There could be the standard division by color,like white,
   red,blue,black,or something different!

Beholders:Large creatures with many eyes on eyestalk...Each eye
has a different power,usually a deadly spell.

Trolls:Why special?Because Trolls are KOOOOL!We also have altredy
      talked about various kinds of troll,and what are the kinds
      of trolls thar regenerate and turn to stone in sunlight...

Demons/Devils:These would be very hard to classify...If im right,
         there is also a difference between demons and devils...

Githazanky:Long armed,gray/yellow creatures with natural psionic
talent if im right.Also they are sexless if im right.

[spelguru]

Do not forget Otyugh! They are basicly a plantthingy with tentacles and a big mouth!
And you got the fomorian giants from ADOM, right? The same about stone giants. And no troll turn to stone in daylight, plz?

[Toady One]

Sub-races are one of the things that variations were put in for, although we'll have to wait a bit for civilization entities to be fleshed out.  I think for "Mayhem visit the Quaint Thorpe" I was going to do that...  lots of things have been stuffed into that release though...  I might have to break it up into two.

Are gnolls, githayansuyrtahjsec, and mind flayers from DND?  Or do they come from other sources?  Other people can put in DND stuff if they want, but I don't know that they will be default creatures.  Tolkien generally gets a bit more play, but I'm not sure he'll even make it in for stock creatures, although he is insidious (orcs?  elves?  dwarves?).

Kobolds, on the other hand, are not a DND rip-off and will have the honor of being the first non-human stock creature (well, right after the flesh ball, which doesn't count in any way).  I'm not in the kobolds-as-dog-men camp (because that seems to be a DND invention) although many people are and will probably alter their kobolds to appear as they see fit.

There's a difference between Demons and Devils in DND, especially since TSR bitched-out and gave them weird politically correct names.  I don't know if there is a difference in the "real" world.  In any case, the idea would be to either make them scary in a general way (horns, fire, bat wings, etc.) or to use something like the centaur-making system.  This is all on the future pages, but anyway, a demon can be made as a mockery of, say, a human.  This means taking a regular human and giving it various distasteful features.  Angelic beings can be made the same way, except by using awe-inspiring or cuddly features to create an "idealization" (pick a better word) of a human.  The game could even generate an angel through the idealization process, and then create a demon through the mockery process.  I believe this was how it was done for many of the demons in Dante's Inferno.  First, angels are created using an idealization process (feathery wings), then demons are created by making mockeries of the angels (bat wings).  For our purposes, direct mockeries will also work.  Then, for a given universe, humans might be confronted by 10-20 different types of demons, or whatever, which are all generated by different random mockeries...  or just put together to enhance fright value.  A demon designed for humans might also include mockeries of animals that humans are familiar with, like cats, dogs, birds, pigs, bulls...  ETC.

[spelguru]

Angels are humans with wings and yellow rings above their heads. Demons are large carnivores with large black or dark red wings, fangs and have hunchbacks. Devil are redscaled humans with horns and giant forks! There you have it, no need to program alot of idealization or mockery  

[ThreeToe]

Kobolds are my favorite.  They are the first DND monster you had to kill to get to 2nd level.  As such, to me they represent everything pathetic and evil that must be crushed.  

But they could be so much more!  Why do they have to be the cowardly adversary with a maximum of 4 hitpoints?  Research into the demented DND rulebooks has turned up evidence that they are quite intelligent and dig pits to trap enemies and then shower them with poisonous insects.

The only non-DND reference I have found for kobolds is that they are "Creatures from German folklore" do any of you Germans know more about this?

As our first stock creature we must strive to make the kobold as best (and therefore as pathetic) as we can!

[Demon]

But a single kobold could destroy an entire village (in D&D)!  They arnt always pathedic, they actually have a very powerful talent for magic.  And if you were killing lots of kobolds at 1st level I wonder where they're 7th level sorcerer with 5 fire balls a day was...  Also, in 3rd edition now they're reptilian.

I dont know what Tarn is basing his kobold model off, but they shouldnt be as pathedic as people like to think.

[ThreeToe]

I agree with Conan: All users of magic should be sacrificed to Crom.

If single kobolds are capable of destroying villages then no one is safe.  I was talking with Master 'T' and told him that I thought the only reason everyone wants to be wizards is that without spells you limit game play.  Maybe if the fighters had as many special combat powers that the wizards couldn't use they would be more popular.

[Demon]

But those are D&D wizards, afterall; theyre blasphemous at high level.  In slaves to armok no one will (should) be capable of wiping out a small army on their own.  (Titan vs. Leprechaun excluded)

I dont think fighters will need combat "powers."  If a fighter can shoot an arrow through someones head before they finish a spell then there is really no problem!  They could also buy/find/steal magical equipment that couold protect them against mages.

[ThreeToe]

Let's face it, fighters are BORING!  They need something to make them more fun to play.  In DND and most role-playing games, including all rogue-likes, fighters merely have one choice: Attack or retreat.  Basic! Animal! Sub-human Fight or Flight reflex!
The only thing that seperates fighters from the animal kingdom is how they choose to equip themselves.  This must change!  I have pushed for a more robust combat system.  Already Armok has combat that in most games would be considered nothing but critical strikes.

By "powers" I'm talking about moves and stances, the ability to control the movement of the fight (backing the opponent against a wall or off a cliff).  Parrying, disarming, all the stuff other gamers call "too complicated" as they stuff thier games with endless spell effects.

But I'm not against fighters having "powers" in the way you were thinking.  Fist of the Northstar was a great flick.

[ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: ThreeToe ]

[spelguru]

Fighters should have something special over those mages. Sure mages are allpowerful when they´re welltrained, but they should also miss out on lots of things that fighters get. Maybe a spellcaster shouldn´t be allowed to disarm opponents. And when a mage has no more spells to cast and still has 5 fighters to kill, what is he going to do then? Talk them to death? Mages are limited, but a little more would make things more balanced.

[Alanor]

you guy should also remember that mages have
a hard time growing up..
i mean you start out being able to make a little light... where as a warrior would likely have some skill swinging a sword...
i know who i would bet on in the beginning..

as long as a fighter is master of the melee.. there shouldnt be much of a problem..
though i do like the idea of fighters being able to CONTROL the melee better than anyone else...

[spelguru]

I remember in Baldur´s Gate 1, where I as a mage tried to attack those hired thugs in candlekeep. They charge at you with knives and swords and you only have that lowgrade magic missile/chromatic orb that does 1-5 damage!

Fighters could charge at them and hack them to pieces or shoot them with a crossbow or something...

[Demon]

And keep in mind there isnt a limiting class system.  You could start out as a fighter and pay people to teach you magic as you go.  Or a mage could cast spells to protect him then wade into combat, eventually getting very good at melee.  Eventually you could be capable in both areas.

[Toady One]

All of the fighting and magic skills can be tied together in freaky ways, depending on the universe.  And unless the wizard had summoning/mind-control spells, a character more geared toward fighting would probably have an easier time recruiting people as well, if there's any stigma associated with magic use...  only a very powerful magic user could defeat a thousand peasants bent on murder.  In this way, even if spell-casting characters will eventually attain a higher amount of combat power than a skilled fighter (ie, throw them in an arena fifty feet away from each other and see who wins), an advanced fighter will have more of a chance to build armies and so on, against which a wizard might be powerless.  Casting spells to summon an equal army of creatures would be much more difficult than recruiting mundane forces.  The wizard would have to be very careful not to make enemies with various heads of state, and as he or she becomes more powerful, this becomes more difficult.  Or something.

What happened at that national math contest?

[ThreeToe]

It's all about game balance.  Though in some universes this isn't important I guess... Everyone would be a wizard because it would be stupid not to be.  There you go!  If magic is easy you have a lot of competetion!  So you guys can have the universe where everyone is the fastest gun in the west shooting fireballs at each other.  In my universe you have to sell your soul to cast the weakest magic and every use makes you more corrupted.  Therefore there will be only a few very powerful, very evil wizards, deformed and insane.