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[Mephansteras]

Saying we ignored your questions and made excuses is untruthful; we refused to say a name because we wanted a no-lynch.  I've outlined my reasons for that passive play-style and why I subsequently changed it here:

Please do not use red coloring on anything that is not an actual vote/unvote. I skim the thread looking for red, and this sort of thing makes it harder for me to do an accurate vote tally.

[Elephant Parade]

Hey, Elephant. Who was it that actually responded to my little bait? Being on the sidelines watching and commenting is not conductive to hunting. I'm aware I'm doing it, but this is called throwing shade.

I'm sorry but I once again barely understand what you're talking about. I've made my cases against MS and sofanthiel and I don't presently have anything to add to them, and I'm coaching Snowkiller because I think their lynch would kill town and provide very little information.


I'm glad Caz is seeing what I'm seeing. If nothing else, this essentially disproves the MaximumSpin/Caz scumteam I've been contemplating on and off, and it moves Caz from a neutral read to a modest townread for me.

[sofanthiel]

Maybe you don't feel the same. I understand that. You probably wouldn't INTEND to seem that way. But why haven't you actually done anything?

I am still bemused as to why they can’t tell us who their top town and scum picks are, however poorly justified. With their own justifications for it.

Alright.  My best guess is that it's hector and Crystal.  The only difference between all the newbies is that Crystal jumps on bandwagons, yet hector treats them as if they are being extremely productive.  It would make sense for hector to try and lynch the other beginners while also "helping" one of them, as he himself pointed out here.  I do agree that a lot of Crystal's posts are just filler, and both of them switch their positions a lot without much in the way of reason.  Hector is yet to actually explain why he thought Toony (whom Crystal also voted for) and MS were likely to be mafia with me, besides them just being skilled players.

[sofanthiel]

Please do not use red coloring on anything that is not an actual vote/unvote. I skim the thread looking for red, and this sort of thing makes it harder for me to do an accurate vote tally.

Sorry about that; it won't happen again!

[Elephant Parade]

Maybe you don't feel the same. I understand that. You probably wouldn't INTEND to seem that way. But why haven't you actually done anything?

I am still bemused as to why they can’t tell us who their top town and scum picks are, however poorly justified. With their own justifications for it.

Alright.  My best guess is that it's hector and Crystal.  The only difference between all the newbies is that Crystal jumps on bandwagons, yet hector treats them as if they are being extremely productive.  It would make sense for hector to try and lynch the other beginners while also "helping" one of them, as he himself pointed out here.  I do agree that a lot of Crystal's posts are just filler, and both of them switch their positions a lot without much in the way of reason.  Hector is yet to actually explain why he thought Toony (whom Crystal also voted for) and MS were likely to be mafia with me, besides them just being skilled players.

I find this extremely convincing but the lack of examples (of Crystal bandwagoning and both of them swapping positions arbitrarily) has me a bit hesitant—I remember some but I could be hyperbolizing them in my head. Could you provide some?

[Elephant Parade]

Gotta go; leaving vote on MS

[hector13]

My word a fucking case emerges why could you not put this much effort into the last 60-odd hours ffs?

What posts of CM’s are filler? Specifically compared and contrasted with your posts and Snowkiller’s posts, please.

Also that linked post doesn’t say what you say it does:

What are your ideas for the day? Other than answering the same questions multiple times…

‘Cause another thing scum do with newbies is offer advice. It makes them look active and helpful, while actually being neither. You, me, Max, and EP have all jumped on Snowkiller for guidance. Would you say there’s scum in that grouping?

I said scum can look active and productive helping newbies, not that killing some while helping another is a strategy. Caz mentioned going after newbies was a scumtell at some point I can’t be bothered finding.

Toony’s been defending you all day, despite my very clear concerns with your play. MS is the least townie of the experienced players…. but Max is always pinging my scumdar.

Equally so, if CM and I are a team, we have a private chat to improve his play, though that’s WIFOM.

[ToonyMan]

Pfp

I'm out tonight so I can't do better than phone posting until day end.

I'm willing to vote Hector the most.

I'm willing to vote Max, Snowkiller, or Crystal in no particular order.

I'm probably not willing to vote Elephant or Caz.

I'm not willing to vote Sofenthiel or Tric.

[sofanthiel]

I find this extremely convincing but the lack of examples (of Crystal bandwagoning and both of them swapping positions arbitrarily) has me a bit hesitant—I remember some but I could be hyperbolizing them in my head. Could you provide some?

Sure thing!  Not all of these are equally not-so-useful, and some of them I just struggle to understand, but here ya go:

I have literally no idea what the relation between Elephant Parade and scum is so I'm voting hector13

This is funny, but that's mainly because I thought that we were the ones asking the questions

Fun fact: 90% of statistics is made up on the spot

If it is possible I would like to vote in favour of skipping lynching

You're right, let's vote hector13.

Honestly, it's probably because of my first impression of you. You start the game by voting against Elephant Parade before anybody has posted so naturally you're a bit suspicious.
I don't think I trust anyone all that much.

Do you find him more or less suspicious than you did at the time of his first post? Why?

I do find hector less suspicious than starting out since I'm starting to think this is what he does every game(I haven't seen nor read any mafia games he's played in so far) but I still find him quite suspicious.
I'm changing my vote of hector to hector. Probably not a smart decision but he seems a lot less suspicious.

What I meant to say was that you're a lot less suspicious now than before and I'm changing my vote blue because of that. I didn't mean to imply I find someone else more suspicious.

Scums are thought to be more inflammatory because they have more to lose than townies since they have lower numbers.

I absolutely do not trust you at all TricMagic

Wait, is this usual behaviour from TricMagic or is he trying to get killed on purpose?

Have you noticed the fact that most if not all the people nolynching are newbies?

Toony seems to think that I'm somehow more suspicious than any of the other newbies for some reason. So if Toony isn't scum then they're probably trying to act suspiciously on purpose which I doubt. While Tricmagic is still suspicious, I'm starting to think they're more annoying than anything else, and has since claimed they were acting suspicious on purpose.

Yes, mainly because of that and I'm also getting the feeling he's playing favourites and unfavourites with me and the other newbies. However, I still find TricMagic and hector13 suspicious(TricMagic is more suspicious than hector13).

I honestly think that sofanthiel is just a newbie not avoiding questions cause they're scum.

[Crystalizedmire]

Sofanthiel is voted by hector and maximum
Toonyman is voted by Tric and I
Maximum spin is voted by Elephant and Caz
Hector13 is voted by sofathiel and Toony
If my chart is correct then if the day ends now there would be a four-way tie and I'm considering changing my votes.

[ToonyMan]

@Sofanthiel:
Reading those posts you quoted doesn't look like Crystal is with Hector to me.

@Crystal:

Sofanthiel is voted by hector and maximum
Toonyman is voted by Tric and I
Maximum spin is voted by Elephant and Caz
Hector13 is voted by sofathiel and Toony
If my chart is correct then if the day ends now there would be a four-way tie and I'm considering changing my votes.

I can switch to Max if a tie looks likely. I think I'm okay trusting Elephant and Caz's judgment here.

[hector13]

Oh, I’m also not treating CM as if they’re being extremely productive. To be honest their arguments suck (sorry CM). They’ve been willing to make an effort, which is a damn sight more than you and Snowkiller have done, even without being promoted to after our little coaching session.

You have done nothing but complain about statistics and no lynches, and coincidentally choose - four hours prior to day end! - to make a case against someone who has been on at you all day, and coincidentally the only player you’re likely to be able to get eliminated ahead of you? Come on guy.

PPE: CM can’t simultaneously be posting fuller and engaging with the game.

Here are Snowkiller’s posts, please tell me how that is better than what CM has been doing. This should be easy as you have all Snowkiller’s posts below and the issues you have with CM from your own post:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 

Snowkiller: what do you look for in a D1 elimination?

I'm new to this game genre but I don't think I "look" for anything in D1, unless the person slips up and says something sus. It's the first day. I don't know enough about the game in general nor the people in this particular instance to say "yay" or "nay" on lynching. That's why I usually go for no lynch in the critically few mafia games I've been in.

Ninja Edit: Yes, Maximum Spin. I've been using various resources to get up to speed on the mafia game and its various formats. I'm still not an expert and will likely look dumb for the entirety of this game.

Crap! I forgot--I'm not supposed to edit posts in a mafia game.

For the GM: I edited my response to the question I asked. Nothing game-relevant or breaking, but still, I broke the rule(s). If I get a pee-pee slap then I'll take it. I wasn't trying to do any weird stuff. I'm just used to getting yelled at for double-posting, since that's a general forum rule everywhere you go.

Just going to cut in here. I don't see the point in lynching on day one without some kind of platform to jump off of. I noticed someone earlier said that I'm town because I want a NL; D1 vote. Color me stupid, but I was under the impression the goal was to eliminate mafia, and protect town.

"But Snow!", you'll cry. "You can't not lynch for the entire game! It's how the town does their thing unless they have power roles!"

I get that. Really, I do. And I never said to not lynch EVER. I said, avoid D1 lynching UNLESS someone says something undeniably sus.

Just putting this here for the couple of you who pointed my NL preference out.

You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette, man. Eliminated townies still win with the rest of us, so you can’t be worrying about hitting them with an elimination.

You also can’t work on statistics. They can be manipulated to make ‘em say what you want ‘em to say. Like justifying sitting on the fence…

This came in before I posted. It's got me thinking. I suppose, if one wishes to get technical, that the W goes to everyone who was town--even those who were lynched. But then, playing the game is fun so you still don't want to take an L by being wrongly lynched. I still stand by my lack of desire to lynch, but I will submit that I'm more open to voting for a lynch. But again, it still ultimately comes down to "who is sus." I have not seen anyone as of yet who is.

Lord have mercy. You all chat something fierce. I turn away for an hour or two and come back to novels. Are all mafia games this conversational?

As noted in the post I voted the Elephant, probably town with the response you gave. It's too inflammatory to be a scum answer. they like to coordinate in their chat. I've no clue why hector made that last post, they should have been able to guess that?

I tend to gloss over your posts. The way you format them is… I don’t know if you’re familiar with the term “border gore” in games like Crusader Kings, but that.

I was about to make a Stronghold: Crusader reference until I re-read your post and saw you mentioned Crusader Kings. A game I have played that I think is interesting, but am too smoothbrain to fully sink into. All the Paradox games are like that for me. Sid Meier on the other hand? Civilization all day. Those games tend to be slow as all get-out, but I love me some Civilization.

Good News: I'm inching closer to the idea of a D1 lynch, based on what others have said about needing to kill SOMEONE so that we don't have an eternal lynch-freeze and lose the game.

Bad News: I don't know enough about anyone in this game to point the finger at. So I'm still in no-lynch mode. At this rate, I might get lynched by everyone else just to move this along.

So, this may sound like a smoothbrain take, but I have a tendency to overthink and complicate things. Work in progress. What helps me realign and get back on target is revisiting the basics.

1) Mafia is about social deduction/interaction/deception.
2) There are two sides; mafia and town.
3) One is an informed minority, the other an uninformed majority.
4) The goal for both sides is to eliminate every member of the opposing faction. (Yes, yes--neutral/third party factions exist but I'm keeping it simple.)
5) The "meta" is for everyone to maintain a town identity.

The fifth point is important, because it reminds me that everyone will lie about being town, unless they're aiming for some kind of Xanatos Gambit (see TVTropes.org for definition). This means, no one will come out and say they're mafia, which means I only have their words to go off of. The problem here is that I have not seen anyone say anything that might betray their allegiance. It's been pot shots back and forth between veterans, with plenty of inside jokes and such to add that fuel. Player X might always do "this thing" in mafia games, and they might have done "this thing" in a previous game as mafia. But we're in a new game. They might not be mafia this time, can ya dig it? I'm afraid I'm no L, Light or Lelouch. I don't think I've even seen anything mildly suspicious yet. The only player who comes remotely close is TricMagic, and even then I admit it could be a gambit play. It could be his Lelouch/Geass move, and I'm personally getting a kick out of his fall-on-my-sword-for-the-good-of-the-colony antics, if only to keep the game moving at a steady pace. I want him to stick around just for my own amusement. Every game needs a Joker.

The sub-forum is weird. We can have a day like yesterday in which we get 2 pages of stuff in 24 hours and then days like today when it gets lots of stuff going. Day end is usually busy too.

Anyway, generally speaking, in my experience, scum want to keep the game in a low information state so people don’t have enough to go on to draw (the correct) conclusions.

Town want to get as much information out as possible to be able to make the right decisions.

It gets more complicated than that but that’s basically what the game is.

Is there anybody you think is trying to keep the game in a low information state?

How about someone trying to get information into the world?

Is that so? It is a shame, then, that upon death, a player is regaled to spectate and further participation in-thread is forbidden. I'm beginning to enjoy the banter. Not doing it myself, mind you. But reading the banter of others.

To answer your question: no. I could maybe go for Maximum Spin, since he seems to be memeing (thus off-tracking the game, which would result in more town hold-ups, and longer mafia lifespan). That's not enough to sentence anyone, of course, but I do believe I have my first suspicious gaze to cast at another player. Well done, Mr. Spin. Well done.

Eh, I want more from sofanthiel and Snowkiller. They’ve got a bit under 24 hours to pick someone to eliminate, I will not accept no lynch as an answer.

I don't really think it's either.

Currently I am happy with Hector or Elephant Parade's demise since one of them is mafia.

I’m disinclined to believe it’s EP so… come and ‘ave a go if you think yer ‘ard enough.

You're Lominsan now?

Translation: hector13 cannot read, and so blames others. I'm not sure why you being unable to read something that was previously posted makes me mafia, but I figure that's your deal and continue on.

Translation: hector13 cannot read, and so blames others. I'm not sure why you being unable to read something that was previously posted makes me mafia, but I figure that's your deal and continue on.

If you want to make things more abrasive I’m quite willing to drop the politeness if you want?

What am I not reading? That you suspect MaxSpin? Because you’ve posted seven times in the game, and put shade on one person, and done nothing with that.

If you’re town, the only way you win is by lynching scum. How do you intend to contribute to that?

I could redirect my suspicion from Maximum Spin towards you, if that will help. I don't know--you let me know what it is you'd like to do.

PPE2: Toony and Snowkiller will be voting me soon, possibly followed by EP and maybe even Caz. The tie won’t last to day end brah.

[sofanthiel]

@Sofanthiel:
Reading those posts you quoted doesn't look like Crystal is with Hector to me.

Yes, Crystal did vote and unvote hector quite a few times, but it's mainly hector's posts (and lack of acknowledgement of being accused) that made me believe they may be teammates in some capacity.  Those examples are more of a display of filler that EP asked me to present (no offense, CM!).

[Snowkiller]

Matter of fact, going back in memory, I recall someone saying that, should the D1 lynch miss me, I'll be their immediate D2 lynch suggestion. So then, should my conduct from here on out not be one of learning more about the game and its quirks, rather than "contributing" or whatever hector13/Maximum Spin were babbling about? After all, why go out to the W if I know I won't last until D5?

VOTE: hector13
REASON: I had originally voted for Maximum Spin, but after seeing hector13's latest post, his whole deal doesn't add up. My posts are, apparently, "filler." I don't see what's filler about owning up to a mistake I made. I just wanted an integrity check, as cheating defeats the whole point of this game genre and flexing one's noggin. Sure, I've had some banter posts, but then, quoting my previous two about voting for him in response to his jab about being "less polite" or whatever . . . makes no sense. His whole collection of antics since the game began aren't adding up, and for that reason, he gets my vote. With suspicion towards Maximum Spin to follow D2.

On the bright side, I'm no longer voting no-lynch D1.

[hector13]

Ah balls EP said they would be unavailable possibly beyond day end, they looked to be changing their mind to me.

Ah well. If the votes are tied between me and someone else at day end, I’ll hammer/cast the deciding vote on meself, just in case EP doesn’t get back in time.