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Bog Cat/Hag

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Bloodsinger

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 27, 2023, 04:40:22 am

[Quarque]

If this rule is going to be changed, we should be careful to reconsider the cost and durability of siege engines. These currently last only one combat round. As it stands they are expensive and good. Let's not make them expensive and bad.

[notquitethere]

If this rule is going to be changed, we should be careful to reconsider the cost and durability of siege engines. These currently last only one combat round. As it stands they are expensive and good. Let's not make them expensive and bad.

It's a good point. Destroying walls on long seiges is useful (essential vs. anywhere with a Keep), but killing defenders is strictly better. Maybe they don't get exhausted?

[Kashyyk]

Not all Siege engines were designed to break fortifications. Towers and ladders let you get over the walls, whilst galleries and mantlets protect you from the defenders whilst you move about.

You can very easily spend the same number of resources on engines to take a Fort as the actual Fort cost to build, but the odds of that actually goes down with higher defence (on a Fort at least). I'm going to vote no change, but if we did change it, I would want high Defence to to be worth more than low Defence beyond merely being more ablative hits. Perhaps the more defence you have, the more likely the defence takes the hit instead of the Garrison? (With the Keep being the ultimate form of that). The maths could complex though.

[Criptfeind]

Ironically, I'd probably be better off if we don't swap because someday I want to kill that dang old witch and the easiest way to do it would be stacking 8 siege engines. The change might be better overall (hard to tell really the long term ramifications of it since we've not really gotten into the late game pvp where siege engines would see the most use I think) but I'm gunna have difficulty looking past my own selfish short term self interest

If this rule is going to be changed, we should be careful to reconsider the cost and durability of siege engines. These currently last only one combat round. As it stands they are expensive and good. Let's not make them expensive and bad.

I totally agree that we should be careful of changes, but also I sorta think that as we move out of the early game and into the more mid game the economy of the game is changing a lot. In the first few turns they were expensive as there were some forts that needed to be sieged and most people were on 0-1 wood income, but I'm not really sure if they really are expensive anymore? I'm making 3 wood a turn, Wright is making 3 a turn, FitzHarbort is making 4, Ayes is making 5! considering that it's not every turn that we are besieging down a place (at least for the moment) woods really stacking up quite quickly. And we've not even conquered half the map yet. Similarly armies are now sorta lowish value, whereas in the first turns everyone was buying them for 2 gold each, but as everyone hits their army cap and gathers more villages we are reaching a point where loosing armies doesn't really matter that much, and army cap becomes a much more valuable stat. So long as our actions are limited by our army cap our resource incomes will keep going up but our ability to spend that income won't really go up with it, which I think will make things like siege gear better but also cheaper.

Right now I think the only really valuable material is stone, since it can raise army cap, and gold, since it can buy stone.

If this rule is going to be changed, we should be careful to reconsider the cost and durability of siege engines. These currently last only one combat round. As it stands they are expensive and good. Let's not make them expensive and bad.

It's a good point. Destroying walls on long seiges is useful (essential vs. anywhere with a Keep), but killing defenders is strictly better. Maybe they don't get exhausted?

I think that if they don't get used up that'll mean pretty much everyone just buys 5 (or however many to make 1 kill a wall) and then never buy any more ever again? I'm not sure if that's what we should aim for, but then again maybe then people might eventually buy bows.

[Quarque]

hmm

A decent siege army consists typically of like 6 units, so in an "average" use case a single siege engine demolishes one layer of wall on average. So you're spending 2 wood to destroy something that costs 1 stone to repair. Given that wood is much more abundant than stone, this is actually surprisingly fair.

Ok, I'm voting for the rule change.

[notquitethere]

All good points raised. As we're not unanimous here, what I think I'll do is introduce the possibility of creating wall-damaging seige engines as an additional extra from one of the unique sites that is upcoming.

As it currently stands, if someone wants to spend 14 wood to create the ultimate anti-personnel trebuchet for one round, that's fine- for tiles with lots of units on, or a keep, they'll probably still face some counter-attack.

[Egan_BW]

The current way it works makes sense to me. A properly prepared siege can bypass the walls and kill the defenders, while a less prepared one has to settle down and hope to wear them out. Though maybe it should be harder or more expensive to do.

[a1s]

If no one will trade with me, I shall make my own gold.
New orders:

orders:
March 3 on N9
March 9 on O9
Scout N9-O8-P7

[notquitethere]

Just a heads up I'm going away for a long weekend, so unless I get a move from Vermillion in the next hour or so there probably won't be an update before Monday.

[VermilionSkies]

Spoiler: Gerald Wright (click to show/hide)

Marquess Gerald Wright
Background: Master Builder
Castle Name: Castle Wright
Castle Location K14
Border Colour: Maroon
Army: 4/10
Defence: 10/10
Wood Production: 3
Stone Production: 1
Recruitment: 3
Gold: 0
Income: 2
Debt: 0
Wood: 0
Stone: 0
Features: Coppicing Grove, Mustering Yard, Marketplace, Keep
Production Sites: K13 (1 Wood), K12 (1 Army), J13 (1 Stone), L13 (1 Wood), L14 (1 Army)
Forts (location, defense 5/5, armies assigned): Fort Bowyer (K13, 6/6 Defense, 3/3 Armies (3 Archer)), Fort Mason (L15, 9/9 Defense, 3/3 Armies), Fort Tailor (J14, 4/4 Defense, 3/3 Armies)
Artefacts: None
Equipment:
Special Units:

3 Wood, 2 Gold, 3 Armies (1 lost due to overflow), 1 Stone.
Sell 2 Wood for 1 Gold.
Purchase 4 Stone for 8 Gold.
Build Fort Mason at L15 using 5 Stone, assigning three Armies.
Build Fort Tailor at J14 using 5 Wood, assigning three Armies.
Scout L11-L10-L9.
1 Army defends Castle Wright.

About time I finally got around to my true goal this game.

[notquitethere]

TURN 7 REPORT

Spoiler: Marchioness Aywen Ayes - The Oak and Ash (click to show/hide)

orders:
March 3 on N9: Your armies attack (1, 4 and 0), with no enemy units defeated.
The enemy attacks back (5), with none of your units defeated.
Your armies attack (6, 0 and 6), defeating one of the enemies (bog cat).
All enemies are defeated and the hill is absorbed into your county.
NW: you see a small hut
N: you see forest
NE: you see a village
E: you see a village
SE: you see marshland
S: you see marshland
SW: you see marshland
W: you see forest

March 9 on O9: The dragon attacks first! (7, 5, 1, 7 and 3), killing two of your armies.
Your armies attack (2, 5, 1, 3, 6, 2 and 6), with three hits on the dragon.

The enemy attacks back (4 and 2), with none of your units defeated.
Your armies attack (4, 1, 4, 4, 1, 1 and 6), with one hit.

The enemy attacks back (7), killing one of your armies.
Your armies attack (8, 2, 1, 7, 2 and 1), defeating one of the enemies (dragon).
All enemies are defeated and the marshland is absorbed into your county.
 From the dragon horde, you gain twelve gold. From the land, you find three gold and two stone.
 Your total losses: three.

Scout N9-O8-P7: You scout through the first land, a hill just taken.

You scout through the second land, discovering The Hag Market. Marshland. Protected by 9 bog hags and 27 bog cats. Scouts can be sent to the market to buy bog cats (4 gold each) and otherwise may pass through without being attacked. Half the money spent here remains as possible loot. Friendly bog cats have +1 attack in marshland, and while you have a cat, they give -1 (non-cumulative) to enemy attack rolls. Cats cannot be sent to scout, and they cannot be send to attack or patrol by themselves. Monsters won't march from this location."

You scout through the third land,  discovering a marshland. In the murky mire they find a bog hag with three bog cats.

Spoiler: Marquess Ambrosio Vulk (click to show/hide)

3 armies 2 skeletons 1 skeleton archer continue sieging fort Hawthorn 1/5 at Q14: Your armies attack (with two skeletons) (7, 7, 7, 4 and 4), damaging the walls (1) and breaking through into the fort, defeating two of the enemies (Thornish holdout and Thornish holdout).
All enemies are defeated and the marshland is absorbed into your county.
 From the Thornish holdouts you take one gold.

6 armies with last femur join Fritz Ferdinand von Bockhovens march on A7: (See Fritz attack below)

1 Army with 2 skeleton warriors marches on Q15: Your armies attack (with two skeletons) (4, 1 and 2), with no enemy units defeated.
The enemy attacks back (3), with none of your units defeated.
Your armies attack (with two skeletons) (5, 5 and 5), defeating one of the enemies (barbarian).
All enemies are defeated and the marshland is absorbed into your county.

Scout takes 10 gold to F13 The Grove of Tusks and makes sacrifical offering: A sacrifice is made to appease the Squelsh and their gods.

Scout O8-O7-O6: You scout through the first land, discovering the The Hag Market (see Vulk's turn). You scout through the second land, discovering a village. The hamlet is defended by one Squelsh barbarians.
Your scout withdraws to safety.


Scout P8-P7-P6: You scout through the first land, discovering a forest. In the towering woods they find two wisps.
Your scout withdraws to safety.

Scout N15-M15-M14: You scout through the first land, discovering a marshland. In the murky mire they find a bog hag with three bog cats.
Your scout withdraws to safety.

Spoiler: Marquess Fritz Ferdinand von Bockhoven (click to show/hide)

March 9 armies (1 equipped with the Rhuddy Cape) to A7: The dragon attacks first (7, 6, 8, 6 and 5), your giant takes one hit, and the foe end up killing four of your armies.
Your armies attack (one wearing the Rhuddy Cape) (2, 7, 2, 2, 4, 3, 9, 8, 2, 4, 2 and 9), defeating four of the enemies (dragon (part), wolf, Bloodsinger and dragon (part)).
The last femur raises two skeleton warriors!
The other two wolves flee southeast.
The enemy attacks back (6, 6, 5, 8 and 3), killing three of your armies (including one skeleton).
The remaining Bloodsinger slinks away, taking the forest in A8.
Your armies attack (one wearing the Rhuddy Cape) (with one skeleton) (7, 8, 6, 2, 7, 4, 4, 2, 2 and 9), defeating the dragon and Squelsh barbarian).
The last femur raises one skeleton warrior.
All enemies are defeated and the lair is absorbed into your county.
 From the dragon horde, you gain twelve gold. From the lair you find four more gold. You also find a Wolf Crystal (wolves encountered will join the army instead (they still all run away when injured) and a Pellucid Orb (+1 to scout travel distance). As agreed, Vulk get the orb.
In sum: two skeletons gained. Total army losses: six: two of Bockhovens, four of Vulk's.

Build a Fort ("Neubockelstein") on D11 for 5 wood

Scout B14-B15-A15: You scout through the first land, discovering a village. The dwellings is defended by one Squelsh barbarians.
Your scout withdraws to safety.

Spoiler: Countess Andice Gloronisits, of Point Swearing (click to show/hide)

Scout R8 Q8: You scout through the first land, discovering a village. The townlet is defended by two Squelsh barbarians.
Your scout withdraws to safety.

Scout R7 Q6 P6: You scout through the first land, discovering a hill. On the craggy headland they find a gold mine and they also find three wisps.
Your scout withdraws to safety.

Scout (with a ship) T3 T2 T1: You scout through the first land, discovering a village. The dwellings is defended by two Squelsh barbarians.
Your scout withdraws to safety.

Scout (with a bote) R13 S12 R11: You scout through the first land, discovering a marshland. In the muddy mire they find nothing but bones.
You scout through the second land, discovering a forest. In the dark trees they find seven Squelsh barbarians.
Your scout withdraws to safety.

March with 3 on R15! Your armies attack (3, 6 and 3), defeating one of the enemies (bog cat).
All enemies are defeated and the marshland is absorbed into your county. You take the Speculator's Rod.

Spoiler: Gerald Wright (click to show/hide)

Scout L11-L10-L9: You scout through the first land, discovering a marshland. In the foul bog they find four wisps.
Your scout withdraws to safety.

Spoiler: Prince Mackial FitzHarbort (click to show/hide)

1x Infantry marches on the empty lair at G11: 10 gold is looted from the lair before any other monsters come.

1x Infantry scouts H10->H9->G9: You scout through the first land, discovering a unusual site. Owl Woods - Forest. Guarded by the Dusk Dragon (the Dusk Dragon counts for 10 armies) and seven wisps. The dragon holds Ascupart's Bane (unit has +2 dice vs giants). Your scout withdraws to safety.

7x Infantry break the Siege at Fort Heather (H13). The Garrison sallies forth to join the battle: The boar, boar and boar attack first (6, 5, 2, 7, 3 and 1), killing three of your armies (including 1 archer).
Your armies attack (2, 5, 4, 1, 2 and 5), defeating two of the enemies (wolf and wolf).
The other five wolves flee, taking the marshland in H12.
The enemy attacks back (6, 8 and 3), killing two of your armies. You take too many casualties and your force retreats.
 Your total losses: five, including the garrison of Fort Heather.

Spoiler: Enemy Phase (click to show/hide)

- [H10] The dragon flies north-east. There it finds one army of Prince FitzHarbort:
The dragon attacks first (1, 7, 7, 8, 5, 4, 1, 8, 8 and 2), killing one of your armies. Your armies have been defeated.
 Your total losses: one. The 10 gold that would have been looted remains.
- [M6] The dragon doesn't wander.

- [A8] A barbarian joins the Marrowfat Throne.

- The Moot: Barbarian-occupied tiles 3 (B14), 5 (E12), 7 (G14), 9 (J15), 10 (K11), 11 (K15), 13 (R8), send someone to the moot.
- Reprisals:
--[Wright 9%] The Squelsh are quiet... for now.
--[Ayes 6%] The Squelsh are quiet... for now.
--[Bockhoven 4%] The Squelsh are quiet... for now.
--[FitzHarbort 2%] The Squelsh are quiet... for now.
--[Gloronisits 1%] The Squelsh are quiet... for now.
--[Vulk 0%] The Squelsh are quiet... for now.

- [G11 (newly recaptured)] Wolf Hall: No new monsters come.
--[H13] After seeing off the counter-attack, the three boar march take the now unoccupied Fort Heather, taking command of the area! No new monsters join them.

TURN 8

Research

Countess Andice Gloronisits learns that in N7 is Taghairn Cave - Owned by Cuthbert Catsbane, a Bloodsinger who wields the Cat Sack if it hasn't appeared elsewhere. Has a limited kind of Bloodforge in which three cats may be sacrificed to create a new artefact. You would first have to find a way of gaining the cats.

Prince Mackial FitzHarbort learns that in G6 is Black Claw (Cursed item: cannot be destroyed, sacrificed, gifted or traded. Whoever defeats an army wielding Black Claw will gain the Black Claw.) (+4 dice rolled when attacking, every time someone is killed by a force wielding the claw, the nearest square with a bog cat gains another cat. If there are none, a bog cat will appear in the nearest empty square.)

Spoiler: Known Artefact List (click to show/hide)

In the world
A8 is Marrowfat Throne (when owned by someone of Squelsh heritage, one Squelsh defector will join your cause at the start of each turn (+1 army production) and adjacent Squelsh armies will join your attacks on non-Squelsh; when owned by an Alkabrian or other, +30 reprisal chance, +100 reprisal chance if destroyed.)
E5 is Verbian Tusk (summons 1d2-1 Rampaging Boars to your side at the start of each combat. Boars don't count towards your maximum army-size.)
G6 is Black Claw (Cursed item: cannot be destroyed, sacrificed, gifted or traded. Whoever defeats an army wielding Black Claw will gain the Black Claw.) (+4 dice rolled when attacking, every time someone is killed by a force wielding the claw, the nearest square with a bog cat gains another cat. If there are none, a bog cat will appear in the nearest empty square.)
G10 is Bitter Brew  (The set of armies this is equipped to never retreats from losses.)
H4 is the Black Lance (Cursed item: cannot be destroyed, sacrificed, gifted or traded. Whoever defeats an army wielding the Black Lance will gain the Black Lance.) (You never attack first in combats, but on your first attack all your attackers will attack three times. The turn after slaying someone with the lance, Dragons will preferentially fly one square in your direction when flying to a new home. When this first discovered, place the Dawn Dragon on M6 (the Dawn Dragon counts for 15 armies)).
I5 is the Shimmering Coin (+2 on rolls that determine gold amounts)
N7 is the Cat Sack (defeated Bog Cats are put in the Cat Sack instead of being killed if the Cat Sack is held by the winning force. These cats are owned but unfriendly, and any number can be released by an army in any combat, or let loose by a scout in any tile.)
Q8 is the Crimson Drum (attack first when defending)
R4 is the Shield of Earth (the army wielding this is considered to have +1 defence at the start of every combat, as if they were siege defenders)
R6 are the Saint's Knuckles (take -1 when rolling on the monster table (usually less dangerous results))

Held by Lords
Bockhoven: the Rhuddy Cape (the unit this is assigned to is now considered a giant)

The Wolf Crystal (wolves encountered will join the army instead (they still all run away when injured)

Vulk: the Last Femur! (1/4 chance of each dead unit being resurrected to your side as a skeleton warrior when they die)

Pellucid Orb (+1 to scout travel distance)

Gloronisits: the Speculator's Rod (a scout scouting an empty hill that they own, has 25% chance to discover a quarry. They instead find a mine if the hill is adjacent to a mountain. The same tile cannot be scouted in this way more than once per turn.)

Spoiler: Known Unique Sites (click to show/hide)

C8 is the Crimson Tower (Keep/Tower/Bloodforge) Defence 17/17,  - Dai the Bloodsinger has a Bloodforge in which 3 armies may be sacrificed to create a new artefact (and become anathema to all).

F12 is The Grove of Tusks - Holy place of the Squelsh - This is a forest. Whoever owns this has a +50% chance of being attacked each turn by Squelsh, who will target the Grove. Special Action: a scout can be sent to the grove to make a sacrificial offering (worth 10 gold) to make peace with the Squelsh, setting their chance for reprisals against the Hedge Lord to 0.

E10 is an unknown lair.

F11 is Lake Sorrow

F13 is The Grove of Tusks - Holy place of the Squelsh - This is a forest. Whoever owns this has a +50% chance of being attacked each turn by Squelsh, who will target the Grove. Special Action: a scout can be sent to the grove to make a sacrificial offering (worth 10 gold) to make peace with the Squelsh, setting their chance to reprisals to 0. This only works for people who don't own the Grove.

G10 is Wolfhaven Woods - Forest. Spiritual home of wolf kind. Inhabited by 10d4 wolves (25). These wolves will only flee if less than 10 remain. Any wolves that would otherwise be loyal to a non-wolf, are loyal to the wolves in these woods. Wolves in this forest will never march on anywhere.

M8 is The Hirsute Sage's Hut (while independent, scouts that pass through the hut will ignore the first set of enemies they come across while scouting after visiting the hut. The sage leaves if his home becomes occupied.)

N7 is Taghairn Cave - Owned by Cuthbert Catsbane, a Bloodsinger who wields the Cat Sack if it hasn't appeared elsewhere. Has a limited kind of Bloodforge in which three cats may be sacrificed to create a new artefact. You would first have to find a way of gaining the cats.

O8 is The Hag Market. Marshland. Protected by 9 bog hags and 27 bog cats. Scouts can be sent to the market to buy bog cats (4 gold each) and otherwise may pass through without being attacked. Half the money spent here remains as possible loot. Friendly bog cats have +1 attack in marshland, and while you have a cat, they give -1 (non-cumulative) to enemy attack rolls. Cats cannot be sent to scout, and they cannot be send to attack or patrol by themselves. Monsters won't march from this location."

Q5 is The Moot - Village with 2d2 (2+1=3) Squelsh Barbarians and a moat (6/6 defense). It is the neutral meeting place of rival Squelsh bands. At the start of each enemy turn, each tile with a Squelsh Barbarian has a 25% chance of sending someone to the Moot. The first Squelsh reprisal each turn will be joined by whomever is in the Moot. If the Moot is conquered, a new Moot (with a new moat) will appear in the most populous Squelsh-held village at the start of the next player turn, or if there are no such villages, it may appear in future tile generation (from scouting, research etc.).

Q9 is Granny Longtooth's Hut - Marshland. 4/4 defence while Granny Longtooth lives here. Granny Longtooth is a Bog Hag protected by 15 Bog Cats. Monsters won't normally march from this location, but Granny Longtooth will curse anyone who has sacrificed cats or who has let a friendly cat come to harm. (While she lives: -1 income, -1 recruitment, -1 wood production, -1 stone production, to a minimum of 0 each.)

R3 is The Castle of Bryn the Brawn (Keep/Tower/Tower) Defence 21/21, occupied by Bryn, a giant, and his family, three more giants. The adjacent squares are also within his domain. Bryn will wage war to retake any squares adjacent to his castle, always accompanied in battle by 1d6 wolves.

[Kashyyk]

Your total losses: one. The 10 gold that would have been looted remains.

Gosh darnit! The one good thing I was hoping to get out of this debacle 

[Criptfeind]

Well rip. I'll send the orb back to you Quarque since our plan for the marrowfat failed. I guess "undefended" means "not behind a wall" not " notdefended by other monsters". At least you have tons of gold to pay it off later.

Also it looks like you might have missed rolling for the fight in Q15 notquitethere. NBD. Although, also, should there be a unique site at O8? I saw one from the hill when I took it, but now that I properly scouted it it's just a hag and her bog.

[Criptfeind]

Turn complete

Spoiler: Turn 6 gains/losses (click to show/hide)

Stone +1
Gold -10
Gold +1
Q14: Hill Fort Hawthorn 0/5
Army -4
Skeleton warriors +2

Spoiler: Marquess Ambrosio Vulk (click to show/hide)

Background: Bone Reckoner
Castle Name: Castle Mysterious
Colour: Blue

Castle: P14
Army: 13-4+5=14!-1=13/13
Defence: 10/10
Features: Mustering Yard, Barracks, Coppicing Grove

Wood Production: 3
Recruitment: 5
Income: 1

Gold: 10-10+1+1=2
Debt: 0
Wood: 7+3=10
Stone: 1

Artifacts: Last Femur, Pellucid Orb
Equipment: None
Special Units: 6 Skeleton warriors 1 Skeleton Archer

Holdings list:
P12: Lair
O14: Village +1 Recruitment
P11: Forest Fort Ivy 6/8 +1 Wood Production 2 Armies
Q13: Village +1 Recruitment
P13 Village +1 Recruitment
P10 Village +1 Recruitment
O15: Forest +1 Wood production
P9: Hill
P15: Hill
Q14: Hill Fort Hawthorn 0/5

Spoiler: Turn 7 (click to show/hide)

Put 1 army in Fort Ivy
March 7 Armies and 6 skeleton warriors with last Femur to Q12
March 4 Armies to P8
Scout Q11 R11 R10

[Quarque]

Well rip. I'll send the orb back to you Quarque since our plan for the marrowfat failed. I guess "undefended" means "not behind a wall" not " notdefended by other monsters". At least you have tons of gold to pay it off later.

That's kind, but you can keep it if you like, you earned it. Not your fault that the bugger escaped.