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[Il Palazzo]

This forum is a rare exception, of a community where both the left and the right can tolerate each other.

Lol. This forum is an exception? This den of progressive scum and villainy? There are no right wing people on bay 12. Or if there are, they stay away from politics. They've all been bullied away over the years. Best you can get is a few centrists.

My position is honestly less spite and more recognizing that civility just... doesn't really work out nowadays.

If you contribute to it not working, then you must want for it not to work.

[Criptfeind]

If you contribute to it not working, then you must want for it not to work.

This is way more complicated then this short statement makes it seem though. Society is not just a bar that at one side all conversation is totally civil and at the other all conversation is uncivil, and for each civil action it goes towards civility and for each uncivil action it goes towards incivility. It's super complicated and not always easy (understatement, often it's flat out impossible) to predict the long term ramifications of actions on the state of discourse in society. And obviously at certain points being "civil" and humoring certain ways people conduct discourse ultimately leads to less "civility" and openness. If people aren't conversing fully in good faith (even sometimes in cases where they are trying too, and frankly what "Good faith" even means probably can change from person to person) then engaging with them will eventually cause negative effects for the state of discourse for everyone else.

[Starver]

You can't fight here... This is [just across the water from] the War Room!

(I'm sure this is good discussion, give or take rehashing the long-held arguments for both sides, but do we have any more to say more under the TurkPol/TürkSiyas[1] umbrella, rather than Twitter, AmeriPol, perhaps Railgun/etc?)


[1] Interesting to know that "Siya" is "black" in Persian, but can't find a more direct link the politics/political word in arabic-sourced Turkish. Would be interesting to know from the resident local if this is an actual perceived etymological link or just a pun-worthy coincidence. And, either way, is there potentially a Sapir-Whorf effect, making people tend to think that "politics" is an even more "black" (or at least shady) word than we do in the anglosphere..? Just pondering. I'm sure this isn't important, but since I tripped over this 'fact' (without opportunity to research it properly) it's been one of those things that have been rattling around inside my skull, all the while doing nothing useful.

[nenjin]

Proposing the name "Turkepol."

[Il Palazzo]

Kebabpoliticugulu.

[MaxTheFox]

This forum is a rare exception, of a community where both the left and the right can tolerate each other.

Lol. This forum is an exception? This den of progressive scum and villainy? There are no right wing people on bay 12. Or if there are, they stay away from politics. They've all been bullied away over the years. Best you can get is a few centrists.

There are no truly far-right people but that's a good thing. There’s a few people I would consider moderate right though. McTraveller, jipehog, TheDwarfy, arguably Strongpoint. Yes there are no outright Nazis or reactionaries because they get chased off, but considering them even existing is a symptom of our society's degradation that's a good thing.

My position is honestly less spite and more recognizing that civility just... doesn't really work out nowadays.

If you contribute to it not working, then you must want for it not to work.

When I adopted these beliefs it was already dead. I alone won't revive something society-wide so I chose the belief that, you know, makes it easier on me and communities I have a stake in. I am not a true idealist, I am willing to throw away principles if I see something is not working out.

[EuchreJack]

You have censored enough people in your Ukraine threads, to the extent you could, or cheered on them being booted. You're no free speech absolutist - may Chomsky forgive you.

...like usual, Il Palazzo has a good point.

Don't listen to him Jack! I believe you're just as much a free speech absolutist as Musk is! And probably for the same reason as well.

Yes, I wish to profit from my hypocrisy. How astute of you to notice!

[EuchreJack]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Maybe we should step off Magma's thread...

[Strongpoint]

Freedom of speech is a lie online anyways. What I meant is, who's going to stop e.g right-wing Discord servers banning left-wing people who join? And they do.

It is not that different from asking someone to leave your private property because you dislike their views. Not freedom of speech per see.

Turning the other cheek might work IRL, but online it just gets you slapped twice. Wouldn't there be less conflict if everyone just stuck to their ideologically-aligned communities?

Funny. I always assumed that turning the other cheek refers to not reacting to insults and choosing humility over pride.

And there will be MORE conflict when people will inevitability be forced out of their bubbles. For example, when politicians from the other bubble will win the election. And someone has to win the elections.

Working society is based either on compromises or massive amounts of violence and oppression and compromises are impossible if everyone will decide to stop communicating with anyone who disagrees with you.

There’s a few people I would consider moderate right though. McTraveller, jipehog, TheDwarfy, arguably Strongpoint. Yes there are no outright Nazis or reactionaries because they get chased off, but considering them even existing is a symptom of our society's degradation that's a good thing.

You know why I reject being called right? Because if far-rights are defined as extreme racists, misogynists, homophobes, etc. then being called a moderate right is being called all of that but to a somewhat lesser extent

[MaxTheFox]

Turning the other cheek might work IRL, but online it just gets you slapped twice. Wouldn't there be less conflict if everyone just stuck to their ideologically-aligned communities?

Funny. I always assumed that turning the other cheek refers to not reacting to insults and choosing humility over pride.

And there will be MORE conflict when people will inevitability be forced out of their bubbles. For example, when politicians from the other bubble will win the election. And someone has to win the elections.

Working society is based either on compromises or massive amounts of violence and oppression and compromises are impossible if everyone will decide to stop communicating with anyone who disagrees with you.

You missed the part where I said online? They should be allowed to speak in real life of course. Segregating the Nazis into their own Nazi towns or whatever in real life would indeed not work out and is just batshit. In my experience it's MUCH easier to deconvert bigots IRL (still very hard) than it is online (borderline impossible unless you have godlike persuasive skills and their beliefs are wavering anyways).

There’s a few people I would consider moderate right though. McTraveller, jipehog, TheDwarfy, arguably Strongpoint. Yes there are no outright Nazis or reactionaries because they get chased off, but considering them even existing is a symptom of our society's degradation that's a good thing.

You know why I reject being called right? Because if far-rights are defined as extreme racists, misogynists, homophobes, etc. then being called a moderate right is being called all of that but to a somewhat lesser extent

Left and right wing are indeed hard to define in an unbiased way. You're definitely right economically.

[Strongpoint]

You missed the part where I said online? They should be allowed to speak in real life of course.

I very much prefer to communicate with violent people who would love to see me dead online. It is safer. Ridiculing a devoted believer or their beliefs is outright dangerous in real life.

The only people who should not be communicated with are sociopaths and psychopaths, it is pointless. But most violent or pro-violence people are not that. And if no one will communicate with those people (especially young) aforementioned sociopaths and psychopaths will.

You're definitely right economically.

Well, I am a staunch proponent of universal basic income. I think the world will be unfair without strong trade unions everywhere. I consider copyright laws to be a bloated structure that went far beyond the necessary purpose and is used to feed parasites. Monopolies should be violently fucked at every opportunity, etc. But yeah, I believe that any attempt to implement communism can bring only poverty, injustice, and tyranny.

[MaxTheFox]

Well they can't really be saved online, and yes I am not advocating going up to random Nazis IRL. Family members and close friends can deconvert them (did it with my cousin just a week ago which is why I'm talking about it). The alternative is them simply roaming free online and honestly I'm willing to throw away freedom of expression, that never existed in the first place, to not talk to them. If they only end up talking to other Nazis online, sure. I don't care what happens to them.

OK yeah I either confused you with someone else or misremembered. You're center-left then. And I'm not really a communist either, I'd prefer it over unrestricted, Rand-style pure capitalism but my ideal system isn't quite communist.

[Magmacube_tr]

So, today, a 12 year old boy has been found dead inside a cult mederese's (islamic school) barn. He has been reported to have escaped two times before, yet his family had sent him back each time.

Here is the fucked up part. Family of the boy pressed no charges, and the imam responsible has been taken into custody, and was then released, nilly willy. He is still a free man. Opening and running medrese's are literally illegal.

The exact same shit happened when Enes Kara took his own life at a cult student dorm, and when that baby got raped to death by a cult imam. Family pressed no charges, and the criminal left the police free of charge. These will only get more common as time passes.

This is the stuff we are dealing with. Half this country would stand by these scum any day of the week. There is no justice. Humanity is dead. That wretched abomination called islam has taken the victory, their wicked god is pridefully beating its chest right in front of our faces.

I am thinking of carrying a knife with me, and getting a gun carrying permit ASAP.  I am LGBT+, an atheist, and an autist. I am the living, breathing personification of the words; "the nail that sticks out".

And I don't want to die. If I die, there will be NO justice for me. Police won't protect me. The courts won't consider me. My family will not stand by me.

I pass as just a "normal", if not weird guy from outside. I have that going for me at least. No one around me knows I am neither of the three things that I am. I have told no one of my sexuality. I am undiagnosed. I am still registered as muslim.

If I am able to in the future, I will escape this failed state.

[dragdeler]

Having better chances at survival as a hobo than at a... learning... daycare institution, damn. Sounds like you'd want a grenade on your person, that way at least you can take those certified bastards with you. Speaking of which, acquiring a boomstick might raise your profile, is a generally unsafe thing to own etc. Look you're at a real uni or some proper secular place, and if you aren't the risk might even be higher to get expelled for owning unsafe items, which in turn could bring you into contact with people you want to avoid the most. I don't really know but it's food for thought.

If you need a knife stay within regulations, you can still make it really pointy and really sharp, uhm... let me try to say it nicely... pack some fruits you lazy bum! You know, you need a knife to cut them? And that way you stay in shape. Also jogging, it's like training to escape... And otherwise idk... Maybe stuff like wrestling is at just the right intersection of being perceived as a masculine activity, the kind of skillset you need if one day a pineapple is being feisty (pineapples must be the moost violent fruit, I know this whole post is presumptious but what other fruit could it be), and introducing you to people who have an aesthetic interest in seeing two men wrestle.

Excuse me I'm just letting my thoughts run wil, I'll stop now.

edit: just one more before I turn into wholesale fanfic:

"you need a knife that looks like it was sharpened recently to cut a banana?"
first act confused then mildy disgusted
"I will not ashame Allah by eating a banana like a gay monkey!!"

[EuchreJack]

So, today, a 12 year old boy has been found dead inside a cult mederese's (islamic school) barn. He has been reported to have escaped two times before, yet his family had sent him back each time.

Here is the fucked up part. Family of the boy pressed no charges, and the imam responsible has been taken into custody, and was then released, nilly willy. He is still a free man. Opening and running medrese's are literally illegal.

The exact same shit happened when Enes Kara took his own life at a cult student dorm, and when that baby got raped to death by a cult imam. Family pressed no charges, and the criminal left the police free of charge. These will only get more common as time passes.

This is the stuff we are dealing with. Half this country would stand by these scum any day of the week. There is no justice. Humanity is dead. That wretched abomination called islam has taken the victory, their wicked god is pridefully beating its chest right in front of our faces.

I am thinking of carrying a knife with me, and getting a gun carrying permit ASAP.  I am LGBT+, an atheist, and an autist. I am the living, breathing personification of the words; "the nail that sticks out".

And I don't want to die. If I die, there will be NO justice for me. Police won't protect me. The courts won't consider me. My family will not stand by me.

I pass as just a "normal", if not weird guy from outside. I have that going for me at least. No one around me knows I am neither of the three things that I am. I have told no one of my sexuality. I am undiagnosed. I am still registered as muslim.

If I am able to in the future, I will escape this failed state.

Get that Pistol Permit ASAP, before you end up on some list that bars you from ever getting one.