Hypotheses (gathered from claims made in this forum):
1. You should set the number of dwarves to something less than the squad size, to encourage them to not stop training when someone goes to sleep. Also, claims that you should set it to 4 or below, to encourage more sparring over demonstrations.
2. You should use small squad sizes (of 4, or 3, or 2), to encourage more sparring.
3. Metal armour has an enormous negative effect on XP earned for low-skill dwarves, due to the weight slowing them down.
4. Your squads should have a split of different weapon types, to discourage demonstrations and encourage sparring.
Set up:
This was done in a dedicated testing fort, with the following squads:
Squad 1: 10 dwarves, default "constant training" setup, no armour
Squad 2: as squad 1, but in full copper from the start
Squad 3: 10 dwarves, constant training but with min 4 instead of min 10, no armour
Squad 4: 10 dwarves, min 3, no armour
Squad 5: 10 dwarves, min 2, no armour
Squad 6: 10 dwarves, min 1, no armour
Squad 7: 10 dwarves, min 2, split weapons (5 sword, 5 spears)
Squad 8: 4 dwarves, min 4, no armour
Squad 9: 4 dwarves, min 4, full copper
Squad 10: 4 dwarves, min 3, no armour
Squad 11: 4 dwarves, min 2, no armour
Squad 12: 4 dwarves, min 1, no armour
Squad 13: 3 dwarves, min 3, no armour
Squad 14: 3 dwarves, min 3, full copper
Squad 15: 3 dwarves, min 2, no armour
Squad 16: 3 dwarves, min 1, no armour
Squad 17: 2 dwarves, min 2, no armour
Squad 18: 2 dwarves, min 2, full copper
Squad 19: 2 dwarves, min 1, no armour
Squad 20: 2 dwarves, min 2, different weapons (1 sword, 1 spear)
Squad 21: 4 dwarves, min 2, split weapons (2 sword, 2 spear)
In order to standardise things as much as possible, all dwarves had the following ran on them at the start (NB: unfortunately, neither assign-attributes --reset nor the assign attributes command below seems to work - both seem to randomise it across the full range, so there's a fair bit of attribute variation between dwarves):
assign-beliefs --reset
assign-facets --reset
assign-goals --reset
assign-goals --reset
assign-skills --reset
assign-attributes --attributes [ ANALYTICAL_ABILITY 0 FOCUS 0 WILLPOWER 0 CREATIVITY 0 INTUITION 0 PATIENCE 0 MEMORY 0 LINGUISTIC_ABILITY 0 SPATIAL_SENSE 0 MUSICALITY 0 SOCIAL_AWARENESS 0 STRENGTH 0 AGILITY 0 TOUGHNESS 0 ENDURANCE 0 RECUPERATION 0 DISEASE_RESISTANCE 0 ]
set-orientation --male 0 --female 0
These were also ran at the start (again, standardisation):
pref-adjust clear_all
rejevenate --all --force
These were run at the start, and after every month (to prevent tantrums and such disrupting things):
remove-stress --all
fillneeds --all
After this, all squads were simultaneously assigned to a barracks.
When things were started, a great many dwarves did not set their profession to "recruit". I don't know why. Some fixed it later, some didn't. Initial numbers below:
Squad 3:6
Squad 4:7
Squad 5:8
Squad 6:10
Squad 7:8
Squad 10:1
Squad 11:2
Squad 12:3
Squad 15:1
Squad 16:2
Squad 19:1
Squad 21:2
Monthly updates:
1 Month Update:
absolutely nobody has done anything other than Individual Combat Drill, training to dabbling in their weapon skill, discipline, dodger, and fighter. Most haven't even done that. All of squads 1 and 2 have, along with 5 of squad 3, 3 of squad 4 (plus 3 others who picked up dabbling discipline), 3 of squad 3 (1 with discipline), 1 of squad 6 (3 discipline), 3 of squad 7, all of squads 8, 9, and 10, 3 of squad 11 (the fourth has dabbling discipline), 1 of squad 12, all of squads 13, 14, and 15, 2 of squad 16, all of squads 17, 18, 19, and 20, and 3 of squad 21.
Every squad leader except 2 (squads 4 and 6, both of whom haven't done any training, but also neither has the leader of squad 5) has dabbling organiser, along with a random-looking selection of others (some of them literally haven't done anything but sit on "no job", eat, drink, and sleep). Almost everybody is dabbling comedian, conversationalist, intimidator, judge of intent, negotiator, persuader, consoler, and pacifier (there are exactly 6 exceptions, all of whom have no social skills at all). Every squad leader has dabbling Leader, plus a random selection of others (no relationship to the ones with organiser, and again including dwarves who've done nothing). About half of the dwarves have picked up some concentration and student (all with identical amounts of XP in each) - the militia commander of squad 15 has hit Novice in both, the only real skill gains so far. A quarter have dabbling Teacher (in the 2-person squads, this exactly matches the Concentration/Student XP of the other person in the squad, so it looks like teachers get the same XP gain in teacher that their students gain in Concentration/Student), including one member of Squad 15 hitting Novice. No other skills.
Moods and needs have been reset - the vast majority were still on maxed-out mood, but a half-dozen or so had dropped significantly, no idea why.
2 Month Update:
Around the 1st of Galena, we had our first batch of job changes (9 peasants to recruits/militia captains, 9 the other way), all within 2 days of each other. No idea why.
Squad 12 has dropped out of the experiment - somebody had a mood that I missed and got stricken by melancholy. I've now fixed this (hopefully) by turning artifacts off (oops, thought I'd already done that!). The remaining members are now a duplicate of Squad 16.
"Demonstration" and "Training Session" have started turning up in the current job list. All of Squad 1, 4 of Squad 2, 2 of Squad 3, 2 of Squad 4, 1 each of Squads 5, 6, and 7, 3 of squad 8, 3 of Squad 9, 2 of Squad 10, and 1 of Squad 11 have hit Novice in their weapon skill.
I've just noticed that most of squads 13 through 21 aren't even carrying weapons, despite there being a pile of literally hundreds of copies of the right equipment on the floor outside the barracks. Not sure what's going on there.
Discipline and Fighter appear to be tracking weapon skill very closely for the squads that are carrying weapons, discipline being closer (nobody has above 100xp difference between the two). All of squads 13, 14, 17, 18, and 20 have hit Novice Discipline, everybody else has Dabbling except 1 of Squad 21, 1 of Squad 16, 2 of Squad 12, 7 of Squad 7, 6 of Squad 6 (incidentally, only one member of Squad 6 has any xp in anything military other than Discipline), 6 of Squad 5, 3 of Squad 4, and 4 of Squad 3. Everybody without dabbling discipline has no military skills at all.
Dabbling Organiser has now spread to about half of the dwarves (disproportionately in Squads 1, 2, 8, 9,, 10, 14, 17, and 18), all but 4 dwarves have picked up dabbling conversation skills, all of squad 1, all but 1 of squad 2, 3 of squad 3, 3 of squad 4, 2 of squad 5, 2 of squad 7, 3 of squads 8 through 11, 2 of squad 13, all of squad 14, all of squad 20 and 2 of squad 21 have dabbling concentration/student. Leader is still spreading slowly, up to 1/3 of the dwarves now. Teacher has similarly spread, with Novice Teachers now in squads 5, 11, and 15.
3 Month Update:
Squad 1 are now mostly Adequate in weapon skill, Fighter, and Discipline, Squad 2 are all Novice with a few Adequate Fighters,Squad 8 has one Adequate in all 3, the rest Novice, Squad 9 are all Adequate Fighters, but all Novice weapons/discipline, Squad 10 have 2 Adequate fighters, 1 person who's Dabbling in all 3, and otherwise Novice across the board. Squad 11 has one Dabbling Discipline (and nothing else), everybody else is Novice weapon and fighter. Squad 13 are all Adequate Fighters, 1 Adequate Discipline, 2 Novice Discipline, Squad 14 1 Adequate Fighter, otherwise Novice discipline/fighter, Squads 15 and 16 are awful. Squads 17 and 18 each have an Adequate Discipline, otherwise novice, Squads 19 and 21 are awful. Squad 20 has a Novice weapon, 2 novice Discipline, 2 novice Fighter. Adequate Organisers have popped up in Squads 2, 10, 11, and 21. Only two dwarves have yet to manage to have a conversation. One dwarf has picked up Dabbling Flatterer from somewhere (not the mayor, who has spoken with the outpost liason). Half of Squad 1, a third of Squad 2, one of Squad 7, 2 of Squad 9, 1 of Squad 11, 1 of Squad 15, and 1 of Squad 17 have picked up Adequate Conversationalist/Student. One of each of Squads 21, 17, 15, 10, 7, 5, 4, 3 2, and 1 have hit Novice Teacher, and one of Squad 11 has hit Adequate. Dabbling Leader has spread, but nobody has hit Novice yet.
Nobody's mood dropped significantly this month. No idea why.
4 Month Update:
We had our first sparring session! Two dwarves from Squad 9.
Squad 1 are all now Adequate in their weapon swkill, discipline, and fighter (3 are Competent Fighters), Squad 2 are a little behind, Squad 3 further behind them (even ignoring the three that haven't done any training at all), Squad 4 still worse, and Squad 5 a disaster (they have one Novice Swordsdwarf/Discipline/Fighter, two Dabbling in the same three, and nothing else beyond Dabbling dodger on those three and a few with dabbling discipline. Squad 7 is fairly even with Squad 5. Squad 8 are in much the same place as Squad 1: all Adequate Swordsdwarf/Discipline/Fighter, Dabbling Dodger (NB: everybody that's actually training has dabbling dodger for now, I think I might have forgotten to mention it). Squad 9 is comparable: the two who were sparring have picked up dabbling wrestling and armour user, competent fighter (and one has dabbling biter), those two and one other have adequate discipline/swordsdwarf, the two non-sparrers have adequate fighter, and the last one has novice swordsdwarf/discipline. Looks like sparring really does help a lot. Squad 10 is worse than those two, Squad 11 is worse than squad 10. Squads 13-21 (the ones who won't pick up weapons) are starting to train Striker/Wrestler (not sure why they didn't start earlier). Squads 13 and 14 are much the same - adequate discipline/fighter, dabbling dodger, novice striker/wrestler. Squad 15 is behind, squad 16 is dreadful. Squads 17 and 18 are much the same (except 17 has slightly higher striker skill), squad 19 is much worse, squad 20 is comparable to squads 17/18 (one has successfully picked up a spear, so is now training speardwarf, the other is still training striker/wrestler). Squad 21 might actually be worse than squad 11.
Everybody has now had a conversation. Dabbling and Novice Organiser continue to spread. Concentration/Student keep spreading, mostly in squads 1, 2, 3 (a bit), 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18, 20, and 21. Teacher likewise, and is spreading out within those squads. A whole bunch of dwarves picked up dabbling Observer from the sparring (the squads are all sharing a barracks, to keep travel times equal). Leader doesn't seem to have spread much.
5 Month Update:
Squad 1 and Squad 2 have started sparring. Squad 9 are also back to sparring. Also, 1 of Squad 3, 1 of Squad 4 and 1 of Squad 11 dodged or got hit by charges, not sure who from (urgh, stupid announcements using professions).
The sparring has really accelerated things: Squad 1 now has a Skilled Sword/Discipline/Fighter, 3 of Skilled Fighters, all but one at Competent or better Fighter, half at Competent Discipline, half at Competent Swordsdwarf, everybody else at Adequate. Two have picked up dabbling Biter and Kicker. Everybody has dabbling Striker/Wrestler. Half have picked up dabbling Shield User.
Squad 2 is comparable to Squad 1, maybe slightly behind: Fighter is 3 Skilled, 4 Competent, 3 Adequate, Swordsdwarf is 3 Competent, 7 Adequate, Discipline is 1 Skilled, 2 Competent, 4 Adequate, 3 Novice. The 4 who picked up dabbling Shield User also picked up dabbling Armour User.
Squads 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 are well behind Squads 1 and 2, still in roughly that order, except that Squad 7 has maybe overtaken Squad 6.
Squad 8 is a little behind Squad 2, but ahead of Squad 3: an even split of Adequate and Competent across the three main skills.
Squad 9 is significantly ahead of Squad 8, arguably best of anybody: they have the highest single skill at Proficient Discipline (the other 3 are Competent), an even split of Competent/Skilled on Fighter, and one Skilled, 2 Competent, 1 Adequate in swordsdwarf. None of them are carrying shields for some stupid reason, so they've all got dabbling armour user but no shield user.
Squads 10 and 11 are reasonably even, and well behind squad 8.
Squads 13 and 14 are pretty much even with Squad 8, except with no armour user because they're all nude for some reason.
Squads 15 and 16 are well behind squads 13 and 14, and 16 is by far the worst of the two.
Squad 17 is even with Squad 8. Squads 18 and 20 a little behind, squad 19 further behind, squad 21 comparable to squads 10/11.
Concentration/Student/Teacher have continued increasing steadily, mostly in squads 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18, 20, and 21. Observer has rocketed up across the board - we've got 6 proficient observers already.
Happiness drops have almost completely stopped now (except for one guy who's being haunted by his dead lover because of the method I used to set this up), mostly due to a whole bunch of positive thoughts due to military training. If this was a normal fort, it would probably maintain itself at maxed out with little help (NB: this fort contains no beds, no tables, no chairs, no engravings, no smoothed walls, and no water).
6 Month Update:
We've had our first weapon attachment. Squads 1, 2, 8, 9, 13, 14, and 17 are sparring (and there were sparring reports from one member of squad 18 and a peacock, both of whom got caught by charges).
Otherwise, more of the same: squad 1 got its first two Talented fighters and its first Adequate shield user, squad 2 started getting to Proficient, being slightly behind squad 1, the other big squads are all still terrible, Squad 9 is comparable to squad 1 (except with shield user swapped to armour user), squad 8 is comparable to squad 2, squads 10 and 11 are rubbish, squads 13 and 14 are comparable to 2/8, 15 and 16 are rubbish, 17 is comparable to 2/8/13/14, 18 and 20 a bit behind that, 19 is rubbish, and 21 is rubbish.
Observer has rocketed up to a ludicrous level: there are now seven Accomplished Observers in the fort, and everybody who's actually spending time in the barracks is at least Proficient. Organiser/Student/Teacher/Concentration/Leader have stalled out almost entirely.
Attribute improvements are starting to show: squads 1, 2, 9, 13, 14, 16, and 19 no longer have *any* strength scores below 1160.
7 Month Update:
a swordsdwarf from squad 5 picked a fight with an adder. It didn't seem to give him any meaningful amount of XP. Squads 1, 2, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 17, 18, and 20 sparred this month. Otherwise, things continue much as before.
Squad 1's best have hit Expert Fighter, Adept Discipline, Talented Swordsdwarf, Skilled Shield User, and Novice Dodger (at last!). The worst is Proficient Fighter/Swordsdwarf, Skilled Discipline, Adequate Shield User. Squad 2 has caught up, being now more consistent but with a similar average to Squad 1: Proficient-Adept fighters, Skilled-Talented Discipline, Skilled-Proficient Swordsdwarf, Adequate Shield User, and Dabbling-Novice Armour User.
Squad 8 is very similar to Squad 2, Squad 9 is also very similar - very slightly lower core combat, but with Novice/Adequate Armour User. Squad 10 is roughly 2 experience levels behind Squad 8.
Squads 13 and 14 are between Squad 9 and Squad 10 on core combat stats, with no armour/shield user (and wrestler/striker instead of weapon skills).
Squad 17 has come into its own - they're both keeping up with the best of Squad 1 (except without weapons, argh), with Adept Discipline, Proficient Fighter, Skilled Striker, Competent Wrestler. Squads 18 and 20 are a fair bit behind: both at Skilled Discipline/Fighter, Competent Striker, Adequate Wrestler.
All other squads are junk, and I won't mention them until the end unless that changes.
Observer has exploded even more, with many dwarves being Legendary by now. Squad 2 (and only Squad 2) have also gained a fair amount of Concentration/Student/Teacher levels (the best in each are now Skilled), but nobody else did.
8 Month Update: we've had our second sword attachment. Squads 1, 2, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 20 sparred this month.
More of the same. Squad 1's best are up to Professional Fighter, Expert Discipline, Adept Swordsdwarf, Skilled Shield User, Competent Dodger, while the worst are still down on Talented Fighter, Proficient Discipline, Skilled Swordsman, Novice Shield user. The entire squad has almost identical Dodger XP (less than 200 points of variation in total), for some reason. Squad 2 is still a little behind Squad 1, but only slightly.
Squad 8 is comparable with the best of Squad 1/2 (still no armour/shield, though). Squad 9 has fallen slightly behind Squad 8, but do have some armour user skill to make up for it. Squad 10 is slightly behind even squad 9, and don't have armour.
Squad 13 is comparable to Squad 9 (except still no weapons, and higher striker/wrestler). Squad 14 is slightly behind Squad 13.
Squad 17 is keeping up with Squad 1 (except as unarmoured wrestlers/strikers, not swordsdwarfs), and have more discipline and less fighter on average. Squads 18 and 20 are well behind, but still making progress (20 are on Talented Discipline, Proficient Fighter, 18 is Proficient on both).
We've had our first Legendary+5 Observer, and almost all of the squads that are still being mentioned are legendary, along with several from the bad squads. Nothing interesting going on with the other non-combat skills, except that Squad 2 seem to be gaining some Organiser XP.
Everybody now has exteremely high Spatial Sense and Strength, and almost everybody has the same for Toughness and Willpower.
9 Month Update:
More of the same. Squad 1's best has hit Great Fighter, Professional Discipline/Sword, Squad 2 has fallen behind, with their best being Professional Fighter, Expert Discipline, Talented Swordsdwarf.
Squad 8 is almost keeping up with the best of Squad 1, but with Fighter and Discipline inverted - their best has Accomplished Discipline, Expert Fighter/Sword. Squad 9 is slightly behind Squad 8, but with Adequate Armour to make up for it. Squad 10 is further behind still.
Squad 13 has fallen behind a little - their best is Expert Discipline, Adept Fighter, Skilled Striker/Wrestler. Squad 14 is a little behind that on Fighter and Discipline, with Novice Armour User.
Squad 17 is up at the top: Great/Accomplished Discipline, Expert/Adept Fighter, Talented Striker, Proficient Wrestler. Squads 18 and 19 are very close, and well behind Squad 17 now.
Observer has started to top out, with about half of the fort now Legendary+5.
10 Month Update:
Squad 1 have pulled clearly ahead of Squad 2, with the best on High Master Fighter, Great Discipline, Accomplished Swordswarf, Talented Shield User, Competent Dodger, to Squad 2's best of Accomplished Fighter, Professional Discipline, Adept Swordsman, Skilled Shield User, Competent Dodger, Adequate Armour User. Squad 8 and Squad 9 are much the same story. Squad 10 is behind Squad 9 by roughly a whole XP level across the board. Squad 13 is keeping up with Squads 1 and 8, Squad 14 has dropped well behind, behind even Squad 10. Squad 17 is outright the best, except for them not picking up weapons - High Master Discipline, Accomplished Fighter, Expert Striker, Talented Wrestler. Squad 20 is well behind them, and Squad 18 roughly a level behind Squad 20 across the board. Strength, Agility, Toughness, Endurance, Focus, Intuition, Spatial Sense, and Willpower are all very high for all of the actually-training dwarves.
11 Month Update:
We've got our first legendary in a relevant skill: the squad leader of Squad 1 is now a Legendary+1 Fighter, Master Discipline/Swordsdwarf, Adept Shield User, and Competent Dodger/Wrestler. The rest of his squad is between 1 and 4 levels behind on most of those. Squad 2 is a fair way behind ,with their best level with the middle of the Squad 1 pack. Squad 8 is in line with the top end of Squad 2. Squads 9 and 10 are a level or so behind Squad 8. Squad 13 is keeping up with everybody in Squad 1 except the leader. Squad 14 is well behind. Squad 17 have also both hit Legendary: they're Legendary+1 Discipline, High Master Fighter, Professional Striker, Adept Wrestler. Squad 20 is well behind them: Great Discipline, Professional Fighter, Skilled/Talented Striker, Proficient Wrestler. Interestingly, the one who picked up a spear and is now on Talented Speardwarf also didn't drop behind noticably in Striker/Wrestler: he's a little behind on Striker, but level on Wrestler. I guess that when they're sparring, the Wrestler forces Wrestling moves that give both of them XP, and then he also does some spear attacks when he gets a chance? Everybody who's trying is at Legendary+5 Observer, Teacher/Student/Concentration have ticked up to Proficient-ish for Squad 2, about a level behind that for Squads 1, 9, 13, and 14, and further behind for everybody else.
Final Update & Conclusions
On the Training Number: this is very obviously not a minimum, but rather a maximum. In particular, it should very much always be set to the squad size - this gave better than 400% improvements to XP earned for every single military skill, and having it set lower wiped out essentially all stat gains (NB: I unfortunately forgot to record the mental stats at the start, so all references to stat gains in this conclusion refer strictly to physical stat gains, in Strength, Agility, Toughness and Endurance - the other physical stats did not change.
On squad size: Relative to a squad size of 10, squad sizes of 2 were worse on average, by an average of 10-30% (but that might just be an artifact of less of them carrying weapons - in particular, it was vastly better for wrestler (because most of them didn't have weapons) and 66% better for discipline (which seems to correllate with wrestling quite strongly). This is probably a wash. However, squads of 4 did better on most stats, but worse on others, all with relatively small effects. In terms of overall XP earned per dwarf, squads of 4 were 4.5% below squads of 10, and squads of 2 were 6.75% higher. Looks like no effect here. However, the effect on
stats were generally positive, with somewhat larger effect sizes - +24% for squads of 4 and +40% for squads of 2. So... maybe it's worth setting up small training squads? It's certainly not as big an effect as people have claimed, so for me, it's not worth the extra micro.
On wearing armour: On average, dwarves wearing no armour gained 24% more XP (29% if discounting Armour User XP) and 28% more stats than those wearing armour, so yes, it might be worth it, but again, that's not a big enough effect size for me to be happy with the extra micro and danger.
On splitting weapon types: Unfortunately, between the assumption that a training number of less than the squad size being optimal, and the equipment problems, there wasn't a lot of good data here. In particular, the only squads where both comparison points actually collected weapons were Squads 5 and 7, which gained a grand total of under 2,000 weapon XP in total between them. Those two were quite similar in terms of total XP earned, but the values are so small as to be mostly noise. This one will have to go down as "for future study".
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Topic: A Year of Military Training [Science/Case Study] (Read 1301 times)