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[Jim Groovester]

Egan. I come bearing a message from beyond the grave. Listen well, because I’m going to bed after this.

Imagine you're screaming about the game in dead chat and you have Knightwing64 as your messenger lmao

There will be more kills in play, but rather than coordinating, those two kills will be aimed at one another. They still have to kill the other to win, while two mafia can focus entirely on dismantling the town. And once one of the two remaining mafia teams eliminate the other, which they have to do to win the game, there will just be one scum left for us to mop up.

It's better to eliminate Lenglon's partner than it is to eliminate a player from the other mafia team since this reduces the overall amount of kills, but it's also better to lynch any mafia over lynching no mafia. I also don't think we can rely on the mafia teams to do us any favors by shooting each other. Even if they do try to kill each other, they also need to read each other accurately to kill each other accurately, so there's not really much we can expect to count on in terms of mafia on mafia violence.

I think we should focus on identifying any mafia rather than limit ourselves to the right mafia.

Toony was one of my candidates for scum on D1, so this works for me.

Really?

I don't recall you having a case on him.

I'll have to check D1 at some point.

snip

I definitely agree with Knightwing not being Lenglon's partner here, Lenglon would definitely keep him under a tighter leash.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I don't think Knightwing64 can be leashed but this isn't really important.

I'm not convinced hector is, either. Toony, what's your theory here? I know what he did to Jim but I'm not sure Jim wants to claim in thread yet, but let's say it was "mean". I could see him wanting to buff Fallacy somehow as Lenglon's partner, and kill Toaster for some reason? Or did the other team kill Toaster?

I claimed this in the first post of the day.

If I vote I can't use any actions that cost 4 AP or less, which ends up being all of my actions.

So I'm just going to go for it. hector13.

I think this is what I'm most on board with at the moment but if I vote I lose the ability to do actions.

So I'll do it if I have to make it happen but not before. Would also like to reread D1 before making any sort of decision since I suffer CONSEQUENCES if I vote.

Does Jim still have a superkill?

No

...t that I'm aware of.

I propose a ballsy move, that we keep Toony alive today so he has to get killed in the night by the opposing team. That way we actually spend the day not being wholly distracted by inspect results, and finding the scum still left during the day, while they murder each other by night.

what the FUCK is the game we're playing

I don't mind this but it's because I'm skeptical that the mafia result on ToonyMan is true and not because I think scum will do us favors by shooting each other.

I find this proposal very strange. I don't understand the calculus from your perspective. If you think ToonyMan is scum, shouldn't you vote him? Relying on the scum team that opposes him is indirect and unreliable and he's a dangerous player and outed.

We flip one of Max and Jim today. If they’re scum the game is over, ggs.

I understand wanting to flip one of the mason claims *sneers at FoU's corpse* but I don't understand why this is a better plan from your perspective than flipping a high credibility mafia result in ToonyMan.

If you think it's me and Max, then you're also saying it's Lenglon/ToonyMan, which I don't think tracks.



These are shooting from the hip, i.e. Day 2 only with Day 1 being a vague recollection

Jim - town
Max - bff
Egan_BW - town by virtue of me shooting his mason partner which I still don't regret doing
hector13 - probably who I feel is the strongest possibility of being scum with Lenglon; I had misgivings about him on Day 1 but don't really remember what they were; his 'let's not vote the mafia result I believe' plan is weird
juicebox - I wanted to say probably not a team Lenglon member because of his case on FoU at the end of the day but ToonyMan's post is reminding me that he dropped a fucking whopper and said FoU's case on TricMagic was reasonable or something like that; there could be something there
notquitethere - okayish; I don't put a lot of faith in the town result but I think I believe it more than I believe the ToonyMan is mafia result; without the result I think I could see him being scum but I don't really have much to point to for thinking that
A_Curious_Cat - I want to say I think he's town but I have not been tracking A_Curious_Cat very closely
Fluffe9911 - lurklurklurklurklurk; Fluffe9911 didn't do anything on Day 1 and hasn't done much on Day 2
ToonyMan - I'm dubious about the mafia result since by behavior I read ToonyMan as town; if he is scum I don't think it's with Lenglon
Knightwing64 - hasn't done anything and is almost guaranteed to do literally nothing than (poorly) relay dead chat to us for the rest of the game; not really confident to say he's town here

Please don't give me too much shit for these unrefined reads.

[Maximum Spin]

I claimed this in the first post of the day.

I didn't notice.
I guess I can't blame ToonyMan for not picking up my hints if we are this bad at coordinating.

[hector13]

If we kill Toony, we still have to find the other two scum before they can be dealt with, regardless of which team they’re on. That’s short-sighted.

If Toony isn’t on Lenglon’s team it doesn’t change anything for us N2, there are still two scum teams with their mafiakills in the game. If we keep Toony alive it forces the other team, whether 1 or 2 members of them, to choose between him or the town. He also becomes manageable in the night in a power heavy game. Tony can’t count on the other team to not go after him, and they can’t discount Toony may have figured out who they are. He’s not a bad player is Oor Toony.

Flipping one of you will either give us the other scum team - and thus the game - or another confirmed town for D3 to grow our burgeoning town core. The two investigative roles also give us information on two more players, so confirming the alignments of half the town or more.

The long game.

I notice you’re not attacking the merits of the idea, rather making ad hominem arguements or saying town would lose even if you’re scum.

[Maximum Spin]

Flipping one of you will either give us the other scum team - and thus the game

Again, you can only think this if you think Toony is Lenglon's partner. Otherwise, Lenglon's partner would be in the wind.

or another confirmed town for D3 to grow our burgeoning town core.

This is at least sound, but doesn't seem worth it to me when there are up to three scum players unknown (if Toony is indeed framed) and certainly two. Also I'll probably just get killed.

The two investigative roles also give us information on two more players, so confirming the alignments of half the town or more.

It's a lot to assume they will survive the night, not be blocked or redirected, and there isn't a framer.

I notice you’re not attacking the merits of the idea, rather making ad hominem arguements or saying town would lose even if you’re scum.

If you mean me, I didn't make any ad hominem argument. I didn't go deeply into the merits of the idea, but now I did, okay?

[hector13]

Like… I want to win the game. Killing Toony gets us closer to that, but doesn’t lead us to the next step.

He’s either not Lenglon’s teammate, so we still have two mafiakills in the night game, or he is her buddy and there’d be one team that can focus solely on murdering town if we take him out.

PPE:

Flipping one of you will either give us the other scum team - and thus the game

Again, you can only think this if you think Toony is Lenglon's partner. Otherwise, Lenglon's partner would be in the wind.

I know, that’s why I explore the idea of you being town in the rest of it, and why you being town is the bigger part: if you’re scum, ggwp.

or another confirmed town for D3 to grow our burgeoning town core.

This is at least sound, but doesn't seem worth it to me when there are up to three scum players unknown (if Toony is indeed framed) and certainly two. Also I'll probably just get killed.

If there are three scum left, at worst, if nobody dies they’ll be within the five unconfirmed players. 60% chance if we do it randomly.

Decent odds that.

The two investigative roles also give us information on two more players, so confirming the alignments of half the town or more.

It's a lot to assume they will survive the night, not be blocked or redirected, and there isn't a framer.

It’s also a lot to assume any or all of that.

Egan has at least claimed to be unbussable/unredirectable.

Framers only work if they target someone being inspected. Regardless we have no evidence there’s one in the game beyond the protestations of the person inspected as scum.

You’ve claimed a protect, why not use it on Egan? NQT and Toony appear to have tracks. Toony wants to find the other team as much as we do. They can’t all get killed.

There are other unclaimed actions we don’t know about too. It’s a lot to assume they won’t be able to help in the night, though as I argued above, they also might not.

I think we’ve had action claims from me, you, Jim, Toony, NQT, Egan, Cat, and juicebox. Nobody has reported molestation.

I notice you’re not attacking the merits of the idea, rather making ad hominem arguements or saying town would lose even if you’re scum.

If you mean me, I didn't make any ad hominem argument. I didn't go deeply into the merits of the idea, but now I did, okay?

You didn’t make ad hominem attacks, that were Jim re:my motivations.

No plan is going to be perfect, but the risks in this one are outweighed by the benefits:

Town either wins when you or Jim flip, or most of if not all the way to winning D3.

[Jim Groovester]

I notice you’re not attacking the merits of the idea, rather making ad hominem arguements or saying town would lose even if you’re scum.

I'm pretty sure I didn't do any of this.

I'll reread your plan tomorrow to see if it makes sense because it doesn't make any sense to me right now.

[notquitethere]

I think we’ve had action claims from me, you, Jim, Toony, NQT, Egan, Cat, and juicebox.

So Knightwing and Fluffe haven't claimed any night action. Not surprised if they are both scum, but almost certainly Fluffe is.

[hector13]

To be clear: Jim was making ad hominem attacks (“it doesn’t make sense you’d prefer this over eliminating scum!Toony”) and Max said town would lose even if I think they’re scum.

Which I guess is also ad hominem.

I’m going to bed. Maybe NQT can tell us what he thinks.

[Maximum Spin]

To be clear: Jim was making ad hominem attacks (“it doesn’t make sense you’d prefer this over eliminating scum!Toony”) and Max said town would lose even if I think they’re scum.

Neither of those are ad hominem.
Ad hominem is something like "this is clearly wrong because a filthy Scotsman said it, probably while wearing a kilt". In other words, arguing that some property of you invalidates your statement independent of its reasoning.

[Maximum Spin]

You’ve claimed a protect, why not use it on Egan?

Missed this. I don't have a protect of my own, but last night I was rummaging around in other people's roles. I can't just do it again.

[hector13]

My motivation and ability to read the game is clearly not a property of my person :p

Neither of the things I referred to were on the merits of my plan. Your comments were probably not that as hominem but it’s late so I’m allowed to get that wrong.

[Knightwing64]

Jim, what have you done that’s makes you so much better then me? I have like 4 people in dead chat screaming that your scum, and you want to say I’m useless? At least I’m a medium, what have you done other then kill a confirmed miller?

[Knightwing64]

I think we’ve had action claims from me, you, Jim, Toony, NQT, Egan, Cat, and juicebox.

So Knightwing and Fluffe haven't claimed any night action. Not surprised if they are both scum, but almost certainly Fluffe is.

Don’t know which one of my actions succeeded and which one was blocked, so I couldn’t tell you if I wanted to. Which I don’t, really.

I come back from having my grandma over and tune in and now I’m the backguy. If I was scum, why would I admit to being a medium and then accuse like 4 different people? Do you know how risky that is? It makes no sense.

[Knightwing64]

Fuck

*Badguy

Egan. I come bearing a message from beyond the grave. Listen well, because I’m going to bed after this.

Imagine you're screaming about the game in dead chat and you have Knightwing64 as your messenger lmao

Why are you all of the sudden belittling me? 

Wth, I admit, I’m not the best, but why are you mocking me and rubbing it in my face?

[Knightwing64]

Omg, I just got on and I’m already going to rage quit. Jesus. I need a break