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[webadict]

Given I've apparently caught a cold from someone, next week. Anyone got recommendations on which day?

Nah, I just think a cutoff time for signups would force people to signup sooner.

Do, uh, Friday or something.

[TricMagic]

Given I've apparently caught a cold from someone, next week. Anyone got recommendations on which day?

Nah, I just think a cutoff time for signups would force people to signup sooner.

Do, uh, Friday or something.

KK.

[A_Curious_Cat]

Voting isn't an action.

A vote is simply a quantifiable expression of the desire to eliminate a player. Each player (barring exceptions like Doublevoter) has one vote, which they may cast for players at will.

Roles are not the same things as actions.  Having a role doesn't necessarily grant an action.

Based on what I’ve read from the wiki, I think there’s a possibility that you aren’t telling the truth and you’re just taking advantage of the fact that I’ve never actually played Mafia.  Based on this, it seems that (if I were actually playing the game, which I’m not) I should EAL you.  On the other hand, I can’t actually prove that what you say is untrue…

@TricMagic, what do you think?

[zemaj]

I'd say its just a logical inference... 'Doubler-modifier' does just that, modifies a role to have its effect, twice.  Since Double-Voter is definitely a role, I'm not sure what all the semantics about actions-vs-roles is, except blatant IIoA...

obviously, the only true answer is "however the mod decides to do it".  That said, to answer my own specific question, I'd say Triple-Vote, as 'Doubler' would double the extra vote the role provides.  I could see a point for the doubling of total votes, but unless its >12player game, Quad-vote would be massively OP and broken.

[webadict]

I'd say its just a logical inference... 'Doubler-modifier' does just that, modifies a role to have its effect, twice.  Since Double-Voter is definitely a role, I'm not sure what all the semantics about actions-vs-roles is, except blatant IIoA...

obviously, the only true answer is "however the mod decides to do it".  That said, to answer my own specific question, I'd say Triple-Vote, as 'Doubler' would double the extra vote the role provides.  I could see a point for the doubling of total votes, but unless its >12player game, Quad-vote would be massively OP and broken.

No, it says that it acts twice.  This is done through actions.  Thus, a role with Day actions could act twice, but a role with two votes wouldn't gain additional votes.

[Maximum Spin]

No, it says that it acts twice.  This is done through actions.  Thus, a role with Day actions could act twice, but a role with two votes wouldn't gain additional votes.

To add to that: Conceivably, there could be a day action that doubles your vote, and how that interacts with being used twice would depend on how it's written; but that's not how the standard doublevoter power works.

[A_Curious_Cat]

I'd say its just a logical inference... 'Doubler-modifier' does just that, modifies a role to have its effect, twice.  Since Double-Voter is definitely a role, I'm not sure what all the semantics about actions-vs-roles is, except blatant IIoA...

obviously, the only true answer is "however the mod decides to do it".  That said, to answer my own specific question, I'd say Triple-Vote, as 'Doubler' would double the extra vote the role provides.  I could see a point for the doubling of total votes, but unless its >12player game, Quad-vote would be massively OP and broken.

No, it says that it acts twice.  This is done through actions.  Thus, a role with Day actions could act twice, but a role with two votes wouldn't gain additional votes.

How do we know that the word “acts” in “acts twice” refers specifically to Mafia “Actions” and not to actions in the more general sense of the word?

[webadict]

How do we know that the word “acts” in “acts twice” refers specifically to Mafia “Actions” and not to actions in the more general sense of the word?

This isn't philosophy class.  We're not debating the meaning of words.  You're the one that needs to prove that those words mean what you say they mean because you'd be providing evidence if they did, which you've ceased to do.  No evidence means your words mean nothing.  And if your words are meaningless, they can be ignored as if you said nothing.

Actually, worse.  They can be used against you.

This is Mafia.  Where's the evidence?  Here's mine.

Acting (or action) is defined as using a role ability.  Since Day is a modifier, the following could be construed as the definition for action, since Day Actions and Night Actions can be assumed to differ only by their Phase:

Night Actions, or Night Choices, are the role-related actions that players must send in and mods must accept. These range from Cops deciding who to investigate, to the Mafia deciding who they will send to kill whom, to X-Shot Commuters deciding whether they wish to use their action at all.

A Passive Role is one which has no ability to choose when or how to use their role abilities. Examples include Bulletproof, Bomb, and Lovers. Note that role modifiers such as X-Shot can sometimes change a passive role to an Active Role; this is known as an Activated role.

A Doublevoter is a Passive role.  Your vote merely counts as two votes.  If you were an activated Doublevoter, it is possible your vote could count as more, and thus a 1-Shot Doubler Doublevoter might get two or three or four votes, but we're not talking about that.  We're talking about a Doubler Doublevoter, which could use two actions, but the act of voting is not in itself an action, on account of it not being an active role-related ability, as explained.

As furtherance of this, we can look at a Townie:

Its members post and vote like anyone else during the Day, and cannot act at Night without the help of power roles.
...
"Townie" is a role designation for a pro-Town role that has no active ability.

A Townie can vote, or do you believe that a Townie is incapable of even the act of voting, posting, living, etc.?

Thus, we can assume that voting does not fall into the category of acting in regards to your definition of Doubler, and thus, that acting/action refers to the set of role abilities that are actively used.

A_Curious_Cat

[zemaj]

<snip>
A Doublevoter is a Passive role.  Your vote merely counts as two votes.  If you were an activated Doublevoter, it is possible your vote could count as more, and thus a 1-Shot Doubler Doublevoter might get two or three or four votes, but we're not talking about that.  We're talking about a Doubler Doublevoter, which could use two actions, but the act of voting is not in itself an action, on account of it not being an active role-related ability, as explained.
<snip>

While I'm sure there is a standard for this subforum, we luckily are not so limited in our total scope, no?

Variations
Exactly how the double vote works is up to the moderator. Some examples include:

- A player may have two votes in play at a time, controlled with Vote: PLAYERNAME and Second Vote: PLAYERNAME.
- A player may cast a single vote, but it has the weight of two votes. If this is done, the moderator may explicitly list the vote twice, or just once. This is the variant listed in the Standard version, and it is a passive role.
- A player may cast a single vote inthread, but control an invisible second vote via PM. This is an untargeted active role.

It is not standardized whether a Doublevoter can change the number of votes required to eliminate. The Doublevoter is more powerful when the number of votes required to eliminate is based on the number of players in the game, rather than how many votes are in the game.

It is possible for a Doublevoter to simultaneously hammer two wagons if they are both at E-1 and the Doublevoter is on neither of them (and so is the only player not currently voting). What the moderator does in this scenario is not standardized simply because it's not a commonly plied strategy - if you're interested, contact your moderator to ask how they would handle such an occurrence.

A Doublevoter may lose their role abilities during ELo or MeLo.

we can see that your interpretation of a double voter as someone who compulsively uses their extra vote anytime they vote is in fact the second listed and logically the less frequently used, overall.  Personally, I'd call shenanigans on that setup, 'Standard' or not... pretty much out yourself on casting your first vote?  May as well be Village Idiot... then you may actually fulfil wincon. 
The, imo, 'best' use of a double-voter is that fringe case mentioned where they can hammer two wagons, almost always nabbing one scum and removing a distraction for rest of town while providing solid death-flip info.  Or Lol-hammering two townies as scum (which, also imo, should be on every mafia player's bucket list).  Neither of those is even possible with the compulsive-use setup, which just seems a bad trip-up for the town to waste time on in early game.

Moving past that, with the multiple different setups this very narrowly focused definition serves no great end and does a disservice to those assembled, diluting the possibly enriching opportunities available to us if we just try to look at something familiar, differently.  In a way that sucks far less anus.  And can be modified.

[zemaj]

As an addendum:
I'm actually kind of opposed to a Double-Voter as a role in general.  Easily too powerful as scum and, if can get confirmed, MASSIVELY OP as town.

Now, as an X-shot... that's good, really good.

[A_Curious_Cat]

How do we know that the word “acts” in “acts twice” refers specifically to Mafia “Actions” and not to actions in the more general sense of the word?

This isn't philosophy class.  We're not debating the meaning of words.  You're the one that needs to prove that those words mean what you say they mean because you'd be providing evidence if they did, which you've ceased to do.  No evidence means your words mean nothing.  And if your words are meaningless, they can be ignored as if you said nothing.

Actually, worse.  They can be used against you.

This is Mafia.  Where's the evidence?  Here's mine.

Acting (or action) is defined as using a role ability.  Since Day is a modifier, the following could be construed as the definition for action, since Day Actions and Night Actions can be assumed to differ only by their Phase:

Night Actions, or Night Choices, are the role-related actions that players must send in and mods must accept. These range from Cops deciding who to investigate, to the Mafia deciding who they will send to kill whom, to X-Shot Commuters deciding whether they wish to use their action at all.

A Passive Role is one which has no ability to choose when or how to use their role abilities. Examples include Bulletproof, Bomb, and Lovers. Note that role modifiers such as X-Shot can sometimes change a passive role to an Active Role; this is known as an Activated role.

A Doublevoter is a Passive role.  Your vote merely counts as two votes.  If you were an activated Doublevoter, it is possible your vote could count as more, and thus a 1-Shot Doubler Doublevoter might get two or three or four votes, but we're not talking about that.  We're talking about a Doubler Doublevoter, which could use two actions, but the act of voting is not in itself an action, on account of it not being an active role-related ability, as explained.

As furtherance of this, we can look at a Townie:

Its members post and vote like anyone else during the Day, and cannot act at Night without the help of power roles.
...
"Townie" is a role designation for a pro-Town role that has no active ability.

A Townie can vote, or do you believe that a Townie is incapable of even the act of voting, posting, living, etc.?

Thus, we can assume that voting does not fall into the category of acting in regards to your definition of Doubler, and thus, that acting/action refers to the set of role abilities that are actively used.

A_Curious_Cat

Alright, you want evidence?  Here’s my evidence:

A.  Assume that webadict is a penguin.
B.  Also, assume that webadict is not a penguin.

1.  Because of A, we know that the statement “Either webadict is a penguin, or A_Curious_Cat is correct” must be true.

2.  However, we know from B that webadict  is not a penguin which, when combined with the previously established fact that “Either webadict is a penguin, or A_Curious_Cat is correct”, leads to the inescapable conclusion that A_Curious_Cat is correct.

QED


webadict

[Jim Groovester]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Antisocial
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Virgin
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Coworker

I guarantee you I picked these roles because I found them interesting and not as a shitpost.

[hector13]

Fallacy fallacy.

Now I have posted.

Bugger.

[FallacyofUrist]

Fallacy fallacy.

No wonder nobody ever believes my arguments

[A_Curious_Cat]

Fallacy fallacy.

No wonder nobody ever believes my arguments

Btw, the game linked in your sig appears to be over.  Do you know when the next one will be starting?