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Author Topic: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0  (Read 211741 times)

Strongpoint

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1455 on: September 27, 2023, 01:02:25 am »

What does the average Ukrainian feel about Zelensky? And, what could the average Ukrainian blame on Zelensky that they could not blame on the Russians?

Most voters probably see a vote against Zelensky equal to surrendering to Russia and accepting the people-purges and police state that would follow.

More and more people ask questions about... Zelensky's weird pre-war decisions and percentage of "our glorious leader is so cool!" type of people is quite low but I can't realistically think of anyone who would win presidential elections against him except Zaluzhny but it would be idiotic if he went into politics instead of commanding forces.

Then again, our political life is on a weird, almost surreal pause. Politicians and their media almost don't throw shit at one another. Even pro-Russian MPs are tolerated (and they keep themselves silent in return). Elections will change that.

Parliament is a more complex issue. I don't know anyone who doesn't consider the current one to be a bunch of corrupt useless fucks unfit for wartime. It is everyone's game of who could get in in case of elections.
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hector13

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1456 on: September 27, 2023, 02:20:27 am »

I’m not sure comparisons between US elections during a civil war and Ukrainian elections during an actual war can really be made. By the time the elections came round, the Union was basically going to win (though I’ll accept that prior to about two months before the election, that wasn’t quite so obvious) and Confederate states didn’t get a vote (obviously, they’re not part of the union) so it was basically administering votes in areas that were already controlled, minus Louisiana and Tennessee as they’d seceded but been recaptured. There are still Ukrainians living in Russian occupied areas of Ukraine.

I don’t think the Russian soldiers would allow people to vote, logistically or otherwise, and even if they did, there was the “plebiscite” held in the four areas Russia annexed that had armed Russians going round collecting votes, which surprise surprise “voted” to become part of Russia.

It becomes a Catch-22 of allowing Russia to have a pretty direct influence over the election, or allowing Russia the propaganda of not allowing those in occupied areas to vote, so they can say that Ukraine has abandoned them and they belong to Russia now.
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martinuzz

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1457 on: September 28, 2023, 02:08:46 pm »

The historical alliance between Russia and Armenia is crumbling fast.
The Armenian government is furious that Russia did not use it's peace keeping forces in Nagorno-Karabach to defend the enclave.
Armenian premier Nikol Pasjinjan called the Russian peacekeeping mission a failure, and accused Russia of being accomplice to the ethnic cleansing that is going on there right now.
The Kremlin replied by saying that the Armenian government is trying to deliberatly destroy the ancient ties between Russia and Armenia.
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http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

nenjin

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1459 on: September 28, 2023, 04:00:10 pm »

Armenia might be disappointed when they talk to the West and find out that region is internationally recognized as belonging to Azerbaijan....
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EuchreJack

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1460 on: September 28, 2023, 07:02:13 pm »

Armenia might be disappointed when they talk to the West and find out that region is internationally recognized as belonging to Azerbaijan....
Hm, I suspect the United States could ignore all that to prop up an Enemy-of-My-Enemy.

Strongpoint

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1461 on: September 28, 2023, 11:52:26 pm »

Armenia might be disappointed when they talk to the West and find out that region is internationally recognized as belonging to Azerbaijan....

Karabakh is gone for Armenia. Most people left it already in a hasty exodus which looks caused more by Armenians being afraid of possible atrocities than actual atrocities. Really easy and rapid ethnic cleansing for Azerbaijan that they definitely don't mind.

But Armenian society is in turmoil. (Ultra)nationalist elements are angry at  Pashynyan's Government, Russia and international institutions and pro-Russian elements actively work to remove Pashynyan who seemingly tries to get some security guarantees from the West.

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Il Palazzo

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1462 on: September 29, 2023, 05:50:02 am »

There are both anti-government and anti-russian protests.
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Strongpoint

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1463 on: October 01, 2023, 12:08:24 pm »

Meanwhile, a pro-Russian party won the elections in Slovakia. Neat!

Sure, they didn't get an overwhelming victory and will need to form a coalition with others but this trend is very worrisome.
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Il Palazzo

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1464 on: October 01, 2023, 06:21:19 pm »

Oh, my. I've only now learned about that fuckup in the Canadian parliament from like a week ago. By watching Russian propaganda, no less. Who are of course having a field day with it.
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martinuzz

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1465 on: October 01, 2023, 08:23:47 pm »

The fuckup in Canadian parliament is nothing compared to what happened in US Congress.
I hope this does not mean the end of US support for Ukraine.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

hector13

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1466 on: October 01, 2023, 09:16:22 pm »

McCarthy is supposedly interested in maintaining Ukrainian support.

Whether or not he’s still in the job to be able to do that is anyone’s guess.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

EuchreJack

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1467 on: October 01, 2023, 11:13:10 pm »

McCarthy is supposedly interested in maintaining Ukrainian support.

Whether or not he’s still in the job to be able to do that is anyone’s guess.
Actually, he might be able to use that to keep his job.

Strongpoint

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1468 on: October 01, 2023, 11:49:54 pm »

The fuckup in Canadian parliament is nothing compared to what happened in US Congress.
I hope this does not mean the end of US support for Ukraine.

I am not worried much. Those are political games and some solution will be found. I do worry about the 2024 elections...
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

EuchreJack

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1469 on: October 02, 2023, 12:04:17 am »

The fuckup in Canadian parliament is nothing compared to what happened in US Congress.
I hope this does not mean the end of US support for Ukraine.

I am not worried much. Those are political games and some solution will be found. I do worry about the 2024 elections...
Well, in the US, I would be surprised if Biden didn't win.
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