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[Strongpoint]

The headline is that '18 out 18 Russian missiles were shot down in Ukraine this night', including: 6 Kinzhal missiles, 9 Kalibr missiles and 3 ballistic missiles total.

That seem a bit too good to be true. Also there is a video claimed to be of said patriot system, showing it expanded its whole magazine (over 15 launches that I counted) and then couple of minutes later it look like it was hit. The Russian headlines suggest it was coordinated attack on the Patriot system and that it was destroyed.

I have seen that video, faint flash on the ground doesn't look like an explosion of a 500kg Kinzhal warhead. I have also seen no proof that those were Patriot missiles, not any of many other SAM systems Ukraine has in service.

And they may have hit a launcher. Destroying the SYSTEM is a very different story.

[Lord Shonus]

Killjoy isn't accurate enough to pinpoint target an individual vehicle, and it isn't powerful enough to destroy a dispersed system like Patriot. At most it is possible that it hit a single vehicle by chance, or with a debris strike from a shot-down bird. Even if that happened, it is a pretty minor deal unless that randomly hit vehicle happened to be the command/radar truck - a power generator or launcher isn't that big a loss all things considered.

[Starver]

The radar vehicle is probably the most likely (attempted) target. Unlikely to be GPS(/GLONASS)-guided to any vehicle's current locale, unless operationally they've been static far too long. Visually (or with IR 'manual' guidance) I can't see night-time use of that being of much practicality. Heat-signature homing would be prone to distraction. Laser-spotting requires assets on the ground (or in the air, but far too close for operational comfort) to illuminate the target. But some variety of HARM-equivalent guidance, on one or other of the attacking missiles or drones types, would be a shoe in for attempting to wear down anti-missile missile systems. Give or take the "anti-(anti-(anti-missile missile missile) missile) precautions" in use, such as clever radar frequency switching/strobing!

[Lord Shonus]

The Russians have ARMs, but you can't fit that to a largely ballistic system like Killjoy. Well, you can install it, but it doesn't do you that much good if the bird doesn't have enough terminal maneuverability to make use of it, and extreme speed is an obstacle for mobility. This weapon was advertised at having significant terminal mobility, but what we've seen suggests that this isn't the case - it comes in like any other SRBM or IRBM system. That's fine against buildings or other relatively large targets that can't move, but actual homing is of very limited use.

[jipehog]

There seem to be some confirmation that the battery was hit. Tough we don't know what type of munition ended up hitting the site or what is the damage. Regardless here is a nice video about Patriot systems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDJgQErMSdA

Meanwhile the front seem to straighten up around Bakhmut. Russian forces are reportedly reinforcing their effort in and around Bakhmut and deploying additional manpower and equipment from Belarus to reinforce their positions to the north in Luhansk Oblast

[Cathar]

There seem to be some confirmation that the battery was hit.

It is denied by the AFU in any case, they say the explosion was caused by a missile falling and causing a fire.
If the Patriot is indeed intact, that is a huge loss for Russia. 6 kinzals spent and nothing to show for it is about as impotant as they can ever be ; those nuclear capable missiles are supposed to be the panic button in case of conflict with NATO

[jipehog]

those nuclear capable missiles are supposed to be the panic button in case of conflict with NATO

Good point, I haven't consider that. Also speaking off, some misfortune befell Russian hypersonic missile program
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/05/16/3-russian-hypersonic-missile-scientists-jailed-for-treasoncolleagues-say-a81155

[Strongpoint]

I think they are arrested because Putin is very satisfied with the performance of Kinzhals, right?

BTW, Russian MoD now claims that they destroyed 5 Patriot launchers and its radar with a single Kinzhal.

[EuchreJack]

Article on Russian Scientists that were arrested: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/russia-arrests-3-hypersonic-missile-scientists-for-treason-2023-5%3famp

[bloop_bleep]

Russia and terrorizing its own educated class -- name a more iconic duo.

[Strongpoint]

Well, those guys lied to Putin about a superweapon, directly influencing his decision to start the war... Perhaps, if they were honest, there would be no war.

[Lord Shonus]

It is very unlikely that Putin based his decision to invade on this one weapons system.

[Cathar]

It is very unlikely that Putin based his decision to invade on this one weapons system.

Yes and no. The Kinzhals were the official reason why he delayed its invasion for almost a decade. He was always going to attack, but wanted to wait until the end of those missile development to do so. The source is the ex "supreme leader" of the DPR and he was pretty mad when he made that statement (made a couple weeks ago, calling for their use), so make of that what you will.

[EuchreJack]

Well, those guys lied to Putin about a superweapon, directly influencing his decision to start the war... Perhaps, if they were honest, there would be no war.

It's more likely they're being prosecuted for being honest about the "superweapons". It was probably threats by Putin that had them verify the weapons when they weren't "perfect".
Look at how far back the incarceration of the scientists go. This isn't a "new thing", but rather a "thing we are just now learning about".

[jipehog]

No idea what they are being persecuted for, could be just usual anti-war sentiments or

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

there is also an outlandish possibility, could they be defectors?
https://news.yahoo.com/this-is-like-a-movie-ukraines-secret-plan-to-convince-3-russian-pilots-to-defect-with-their-planes-030018349.html

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Meanwhile according to understandingwar: Ukrainian forces have seized the initiative and made significant gains around Bakhmut and Prigozin is gaging on this Ukranian phallus of doom tactic