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[Strongpoint]

Some amusing stuff:

We have a website with petitions to the president. You know, usual stuff with 99% of proposals being silly nonsense with a few dozen of signatures. But sometimes some things get 25K signatures. One of those is petition to rename Russian Federation into Muscovy in all official Ukrainian documents. And it got a usual answer, something along the lines of "I'll ask the PM to look into the possibility"

But butthurt in the Russian segment of social networks (up to Zakharova and Medveded) is so entertaining to watch.

Could you explain the butthurt? As I understand, Muscovy was one of the predecessor political entities of current Russia. While I would certainly think someone referring to Germany as Prussia, for example, to be strange or stupid, depending on their intent, I don't think I would feel offended very much. Is the use of Muscovy somehow derogatory, or is it just the usual nationlistic pride?

It kinda can be viewed as derogatory if one wishes to but it is not the reason. (Note that Ukrainians called them that for centuries. Oh, and we called ourselves both Ukrainians and Rusyns for quite some time.  Russians were muscovites or moskali, we didn't call them Russians until we were occupied by them and that name was gradually forced upon us, with them being Great Russians and us Small Russians. Centuries long brotherhood, you know)

They really dislike the attack on their historical myth that they are somehow the same political entity as the pre-Mongol invasion Rus. This is about as logical as if Americans called William the Conqueror an ancient American King and the UK their historic lands. And calling their country Muscovy is EXACTLY an attack on that myth.

[Il Palazzo]

Hey! My analogy was analogier!

[anewaname]

Russia doesn't have the resources to actively fight in Georgia but they have already invested resources in pro-Russian groups within Georgia. Conflict in Georgia can only benefit Russia.

Russia got a pro-Russian government in Georgia, way more pro-Russian than the population (Note that both the aggression against Ukraine and Russians who fled from mobilization to Georgia made the local population more anti-Russian than before.)

No, Russia does not want a political crisis in Georgia that may put another government in charge.

Agreed, Russia does not want a political crisis in Georgia... They want the Georgian government to be stronger and to be able to exert more control.
 
What happens if there are civilian deaths in Georgia and it is blamed on non-Georgians? Currently Georgia has many Russian and Ukrainian refugees, and family-ties in Russia and Ukraine. Civilian deaths would allow the government the justification to start hunting "terrorists", restrict some freedom of movement, increase identification checks, and increase policing activities.

Conflict within Georgia will take attention away from what is happening in Ukraine. It may even allow groups within the Georgian government to help Russia in some ways.

[Starver]

Spoiler: Duck (click to show/hide)

[Ganondworf]

Thank you, Strongpoint and Il Palazzo

[jipehog]

I fail to see how the second part changes anything for Georgia. De facto annexed territories over which Georgia has no control or hope to get them back will stay that way. And it is even more mysterious for me how it hurts "The West"

That is not how Georgia view this, they regard those breakaway republic as occupied, with unification still high on the agenda; I am not convinced this is unrealistic view given Georgia policies and future prospects especially if Russia goes under.

As for the second part, I am talking about possible outcome of things escalating in Georgia, which could undermine the west position.

[Strongpoint]

I fail to see how the second part changes anything for Georgia. De facto annexed territories over which Georgia has no control or hope to get them back will stay that way. And it is even more mysterious for me how it hurts "The West"

That is not how Georgia view this, they regard those breakaway republic as occupied, with unification still high on the agenda; I am not convinced this is unrealistic view given Georgia policies and future prospects especially if Russia goes under.

As for the second part, I am talking about possible outcome of things escalating in Georgia, which could undermine the west position.

Georgia views those republics as occupied, true. But it is absolutely irrelevant what fake legal status Russia will give to them. Georgia will get those republics only when Russia will stop to exist (or gains a government willing to return those, which is as likely as an alien invasion).

Also, a large chunk of the Georgian population views those territories as "those are our territories but actually reclaiming them seems like such pain in the ass, we better spend our resources developing what we control." Not that such things are admitted

[EuchreJack]

It's also great as a medium to reach dogma sources, liars, crazy people, and lots and lots of art of varying degrees of quality. But the filter bubbles inherent in its system are blinders that completely blot out certain narratives, diminish others, and re-frame yet more to appear to be something they're not. It's a mess. A lively, thriving mess that needs more competitors.

I'm surprised at how reserved this thread is. Fewer theses, soapboxes, and Definitives than I normally see online. This is the kind of online discussion I've been missing for years.

This thread is new.
Previous one, which was pretty good except for the Troll Attacks

[jipehog]

True, but in my experience long lasting territorial disputes are rarely driven by logic.  My worst case scenario is if decline of Russian power due to military defeats in Ukraine would empower a new attempt by Georgia to control over various areas by force.

[bloop_bleep]

Spoiler: Duck (click to show/hide)

Eyy I know what that is!

even funnier it's known to be an invasive species

[Eric Blank]

Invasive birds? Do they taste good?

[King Zultan]

Damn birds coming over here and invading my pond!
*shakes fist while loading a gun*

[jipehog]

Btw apparently Kadyrov didn't fall out of window, but very ill so much that there is talk of possible succession in Chechnya, which borders Georgia.


What are the news on Bakhmut strategy, we seem to have some conflicting version from Ukraine?

[Strongpoint]

It may be just rumors with nothing real behind them.

Also, Kadyrov has a 17-year-old son. He'll do. Monarchies are easy.

[Il Palazzo]

What are the news on Bakhmut strategy, we seem to have some conflicting version from Ukraine?

Local analysts think the idea is that keeping the town stalls the Russian offensive from developing further inward, which would let them keep the initiative and hobble Ukrainian preparations for their own offensive. Claims in the news that they're grinding the enemy down seem to hold less water now, that the town is in operational encirclement and losses are closer to equal on both sides. But since it's mainly light infantry doing the fighting, the losses may have been deemed acceptable.