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[EuchreJack]

This is the thread to discuss your responses to the War in Ukraine, how you feel about it, how it affects you personally.

I would ask that everyone respect the quite harsh reactions that some may have to these events.  War is nasty enough, suffering is prevalent, try not to add to negativity if you can.

Good civil discourse will keep this thread going longer.  Please, avoid advocating for death as much as possible.

Please avoid personal attacks!
Whether or not you agree with what someone said several weeks ago...was relevant several weeks ago.  Let it go, please.

Beware of Trolls!

[Strongpoint]

I would prefer if we had more links, info, etc.
But yeah, that sucks.

I have created a backup Emotional thread, in case the primary is compromised.

There is not much info. A big Ukrainian blogger got a video of the execution of a Ukrainian POW.  It seems like all of Ukraine is trying to find the name of this guy ATM. He will be one of the symbols of the war...

If, for some reason, you have a need to watch an execution in which Russians unload a lot of bullets in an unarmed man (I advise not to, even if I did far too many times), then here it is - https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1632724928448417792

We all know that it is very common (if anything, this guy is lucky to not be tortured to death) but such visuals... are a stark reminder of what this war really is.

[EuchreJack]

Yeah, I'll pass, thanks.

So, the issue become authentication.

[King Zultan]

Posting to watch since the last thread got nuked because of Red Diamond 2: Electric Boogaloo.

[MaxTheFox]

I have a weird little conspiracy theory that someone is hacking old-ish accounts to use as troll sockpuppets. It's probably one guy. I don't know how to explain this otherwise, except as the slowest raid ever.

[Starver]

We all know that it is very common (if anything, this guy is lucky to not be tortured to death) but such visuals... are a stark reminder of what this war really is.

What it also highlights is that people are filming these things, sympathetically[1] to the offenders. Which then leaks out, as seen here. Not every war-crime will be recorded, not every recording will be (over-)distributed, not every distribution will be brought to our attention. (And this applies to both/all[2] sides of this conflict, of course.)

But it's likely to be happening a lot. Compared to the days where such things would need use of far more professional equipment, a developing lab of some kind, or even way back when you needed a reliable and otherwise unimpeachable artist/scribe with the time and ability to create and courier their concoctions back to 'polite society'. Compared with the notoriously anal Nazi/Stasi record-keeping (initially self-serving, each, though self-condemning afterwards), and the like, it seems like something that's not so organised but potentially far more pervasive if sufficient pieces can all be gathered together from the many devices, memory sticks, cloud storages and other web-hosted locations.

(Yet still the mostly unseen (or barely seen[3]) is going to pervade like a stink, in amongst the pure and unsubstantiated mis(/dis/un)information.)


I'm not masochistic enough to go looking for the footage myself, it's too easy to trip over such things anyway. And I pity the person who immediately recognises their MIA relative, if that ever happens. I'm wondering if I should actually try to flip the number of deaths that mean a tragedy/statistic, though, just for the good of my sanity.

I have a weird little conspiracy theory that someone is hacking old-ish accounts to use as troll sockpuppets. It's probably one guy. I don't know how to explain this otherwise, except as the slowest raid ever.

I had a similar inkling, but ultimately the logistics don't sit right in my head. And its hardly copypasta, so some imagination used as well as technical success. Then again, for two or three individuals to suddenly deciding to poke their noses in... Quite a 'spate' of such occurances.

(And I think EJ wants to keep this new thread free of troll-related talk, as well as obvious trolls (or just the misguided?) themselves. So I'll say no more.)


[1] If not colludingly or actually participating as. Not having seen anything more than the screengrab shot, but having good reason to presume it was a perpetrator/hanger-on capturing the event on celluloid silicon.

[2] I presume there's also Wagner vs. conscripted Regulars, elite forces vs. such self-shanghaied penal troops, etc, depending upon which unlucky Russian found themselves at the mercy of what other Russians. Before you start to worry about notional non-combatants of all flavours and (mis)fortunes.

[3] Remembering the situation from Olenivka, I think it was. An atrocity that probably covered up yet other atrocities.

[Loud Whispers]

I always find it astounding that people (not just trolls, actual people) fall for the meme of but Western imperialism when war crimes and a war of extermination is right in front of them. As if thinking outside a tankie bipolar dichotomy is impossible


Also the Wagner-Russian MOD divide is just fantastic news for Ukraine. They've straight up progressed to the point of accusing each other of treason and marginalising each other. Progzhin has even been denied access to Russian military HQ now.

It's no wonder the Ukrainians see no point in withdrawing from Bakhmut yet. Their enemy is publicly complaining about running out of ammunition and accusing their own allies of trying to get them killed, so may as well hold fast and wait for the mercenaries and the conscripts to start throwing each other out of windows. I've seen insubstantiated rumours that Russian contract soldiers murdered a wounded Wagner commander with an axe but I'm not posting that vid here for obvious reasons.

All I'm saying is, one of Prigozhin's allies was shot dead point blank range at a Russian checkpoint in Ukraine. Russian authorities are not investigating it, even though the circumstances of his death point to a Russian soldier conducting the attack

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mfw all the Russian oligarchs and General Kleptovskies start offing each other

[Grim Portent]

It's almost as if having a PMC (even a sockpuppet one) be a significant part of your military is a bad idea.

Who could've guessed that soldiers and mercenaries don't get along when things are bad?

[Loud Whispers]

It's almost as if having a PMC (even a sockpuppet one) be a significant part of your military is a bad idea.

Who could've guessed that soldiers and mercenaries don't get along when things are bad?

"Dude stop dude do you even know how much of a shit idea this is NO NO NO STOP"
-Nicholo Machiavelli, the Prince

It's even funnier when you realise the Russian defence minister Shoigu has his own PMC Patriot and now even Gazprom is setting up its own PMC. Russia is about to enter a warlord era. The moment Putin dies shit will be so fucked, every single Oligarch will have his own private army and each of them will try throw the other out a window before it happens to them

*EDIT

Recently in Syria, there have been some tensions between mercenaries from the Wagner Company and Russian troops. Patriot offers better soldier’s pay as well as equipment and training that its “rival”. In addition, both companies have competed for a contract to provide security at gold mines located in the Central African Republic. Eventually, the tender was won by the Wagner Company.

Really spicy when the Defence Minister in charge of the army runs his own PMC which is a rival to the army and other rival PMCs. It'd be hilarious if this whole Army-Wagner schism seriously only started because Shoigu lost out on contracts for blood money in the CAR against Prigozhin. With such allies, who needs enemies?

[KittyTac]

We are fucked on so many levels, I hope I can finish my education before a civil war happens so I can move out because I sure as hell am not going to fight.

[Grim Portent]

It's even funnier when you realise the Russian defence minister Shoigu has his own PMC Patriot and now even Gazprom is setting up its own PMC. Russia is about to enter a warlord era. The moment Putin dies shit will be so fucked, every single Oligarch will have his own private army and each of them will try throw the other out a window before it happens to them

I really can't understand why any government would allow PMCs to be a thing, letting your people buy military hardware in the first place is a bad idea, letting them establish actual paramilitary groups with a for-profit motive just makes it even dumber. Doesn't matter where they're allowed to fight and who they can fight for, it's just such a dumb thing to do.

[nenjin]

I think it speaks to Putin's lack of control. He has big tent poles in the Russian economy/war machine and he needs their influence to keep things going. So they have their largesse. And as the war increasingly seems to be a lost cause, they're all looking at the future. They're obscenely wealthy, control major parts of the Russian state and economy.....and are looking forward to the future. I don't think Putin is capable of "forbidding them" from spending their wealth and building private armies for themselves.

[Lord Shonus]

It's even funnier when you realise the Russian defence minister Shoigu has his own PMC Patriot and now even Gazprom is setting up its own PMC. Russia is about to enter a warlord era. The moment Putin dies shit will be so fucked, every single Oligarch will have his own private army and each of them will try throw the other out a window before it happens to them

I really can't understand why any government would allow PMCs to be a thing, letting your people buy military hardware in the first place is a bad idea, letting them establish actual paramilitary groups with a for-profit motive just makes it even dumber. Doesn't matter where they're allowed to fight and who they can fight for, it's just such a dumb thing to do.

The entire reason Wagner exists is so Russia has a force for military adventurism that doesn't involve official Russian forces. This allows them to push a lot further internationally than they could safely risk if they weren't using a semi-deniable proxy - Syria's a good example. The US is maintaining an active and open military presence, so sending official Russian forces to back the other side raises the serious risk of Official Americans shooting Official Russians. Or, in other words, a direct shooting incident between nuclear powers. Sending Wagner instead allows for a "oh, no, those aren't ours" way out when, for example, Wagner forces attack a base and the US simply erases them.



In other news, the Ukrainian Air Force is now confirmed to be using JDAM kits.

JDAM is a kit that converts a standard US Mark-8X dumb gravity bomb into a GPS-guided smart bomb. Such a weapon not is bigger than a GMLRS rocket - there is no kit for the Mark 81 250 bomb (with a 96 pound charge), so the absolute smallest JDAM option is the Mk-82 500 pounder (192 pounds of boom), with the 1000 pound -83 and 2000 pound -84 being the other less likely options. A single GMLRS carries a 200 pound warhead, 51 pounds of which are the explosive charge. While it can't strike much further from the launcher than GMLRS, the "launcher" here is a jet fighter that has extreme mobility itself instead of a simple truck that takes hours or days to cover any real distance. In practical terms it can strike anywhere near the frontline as long as Ukraine is willing to risk the aircraft.

We don't know the launch platform they're using yet (in theory, it could use the same program-on-ground setup they're using for HARM and integrate it on any of their combat aircraft), and Russian long range air-to-air missiles are A Problem, it is a huge boost to combat capability.

[Random_Dragon]

Weh, here we go again. :V

[EuchreJack]

I have a weird little conspiracy theory that someone is hacking old-ish accounts to use as troll sockpuppets. It's probably one guy. I don't know how to explain this otherwise, except as the slowest raid ever.

I think it instead speaks to a culture shift in the forum and the aging of it's earlier members.  As for the most recent incident, I reported him.