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[Ganondworf]

[Edit: I was replying to Lord Shonus]

Yes, I understand that. People here are floating that possibility as well. I just don't understand how the Russian government still seems to believe that blaming Ukraine for anything is a productive use of their time. Who will believe them? Only their own brainwashed Zombies, right?

[Ganondworf]

Today, 19 civilians were killed in Kherson by Russian shellings. Media (even some Ukrainian) cares about some nearly missed flag more and even calls that ESCALATION

Well, it is a highly symbolic event I believe, whoever staged it. But the sad news (in terms of the media) is, that people killed by Russian shelling is nothing new, while possible Ukrainian drones close to the Kremlin is much more newsworthy. I hate that logic.

[Strongpoint]

Only their own brainwashed Zombies, right?

Trumpists believe this. European tankies believe it. Various pro-Russians in the Middle East believe it. World has many useful idiots.

Well, it is a highly symbolic event I believe, whoever staged it. But the sad news (in terms of the media) is, that people killed by Russian shelling is nothing new, while possible Ukrainian drones close to the Kremlin is much more newsworthy. I hate that logic.

Yeah, it is the sad reality of how human attention works.

[Ganondworf]

Trumpists believe this. European tankies believe it. Various pro-Russians in the Middle East believe it. World has many useful idiots.

You are right, of course. And I had to look up the term "tankies". I tend to forget those people exist, because my bubble does not contain any of those, and I don't use social media anymore. It will forever mystify me how people with access to free and independent media can be firm supporters of people like Putin.

[jipehog]

One theory I've heard is that it relates the Immortal Regiment, where people march with pictures of their relatives who perished in the Great Patriotic War. If large numbers of people started to join it with pictures of people lost during the current war, it would highlight the monstrous losses Russia's taken.

exactly my thought. If its so obvious then there is a good chance that this is exactly what was planned. I hope they can still make it work.

It will forever mystify me how people with access to free and independent media can be firm supporters of people like Putin.

Try to replace 'Putin' with the name of major political party you disagree with 

Otherwise, I would argue that the overwhelming majority of people in the world have negative view of Putin, however, they majority also have negative view of USA and or do not share its interests, and thus its not that they support Putin they oppose USA more.. in other words the enemy of my enemy.

[jipehog]

There's a very real possibility that this is a false-flag (no pun intended) incident, or the work of domestic Russian dissidents. Like so many things, we won't know for sure until the war is over at the earliest.

Or internal dissent. etc.  Regardless Zelensky categorically denied Ukrainian involvement.

[Ganondworf]

Try to replace 'Putin' with the name of major political party you disagree with 

Otherwise, I would argue that the overwhelming majority of people in the world have negative view of Putin, however, they majority also have negative view of USA and or do not share its interests, and thus its not that they support Putin they oppose USA more.. in other words the enemy of my enemy.

I'm glad you put that smily there. For me there is a fundamental difference between political parties opposed to my personal political views, and people who are just bad, inhumanistic persons (not sure about the correct use of "inhumanistic"). I can accept that people may have interests that differ from mine, but I cannot accept people missing basic human decency. People who want to treat other people badly just because they are different in some way. People who want to impose their views and rules on others without regard for the others' needs.

I believe there are those who are objectively bad people, and I cannot for the life of me understand why someone, who could through the use of independent media verify that those people are bad, still support them.

But maybe I'm not enough of a cynic for that.

Sorry. /rant off

[Strongpoint]

There's a very real possibility that this is a false-flag (no pun intended) incident, or the work of domestic Russian dissidents. Like so many things, we won't know for sure until the war is over at the earliest.

Or internal dissent. etc.  Regardless Zelensky categorically denied Ukrainian involvement.

Ukraine didn't admit any attack on any target inside Russia so it is largely irrelevant

[jipehog]

Certainly, however, it is also notable that Zelenski made such strong statement against their involvement, with none of the usual tongue in cheek comments from Ukraine that I seen. Because although I believed that the damage from this incident (especially if the flag was caught on fire) would be damaging for Russia, seemingly they get more benefit from it. And Russia's decisive and organized reaction and how it fits existing narratives is one of the reason it is believed to be a false flag.

[Starver]

Or, at least, a burnt flag... 

[Lord Shonus]

Otherwise, I would argue that the overwhelming majority of people in the world have negative view of Putin, however, they majority also have negative view of USA and or do not share its interests, and thus its not that they support Putin they oppose USA more.. in other words the enemy of my enemy.

There's three thought processes that can lead people there. The most common is not far off from what you're saying.

America Bad. America Says Russia Bad. Therefore Russia Good.

This is common among the American tankie, who thinks the US is universally bad but still believes that the US is the only nation in the world that has any agency whatsoever. Therefore anybody who opposes the US must be a hero, and anybody who is on good terms with the US must be being puppetmastered by the EVIL CIA (the CIA, meanwhile, wishes it had a hundredth part the capability ascribed to it).

This is also common among the European nationalist, who often finds the US to be a convenient distraction from things their own country is doing, and is confident that they're in no direct threat.

Note that this does not include everybody who criticizes US actions.

The second motive is largely confined to the global right-wing, who see Putin as an icon against the Evil Woke Brigade and fully expected him to continue to dominate the Weak and Effete Liberals.

The third motive is widespread in Africa and adjacent regions, where Russia has poured massive propaganda and proximity has given them more access to do so. This is not an "enemy of my enemy situation", as most people in the region don't have a strong opinion on the US (though many do have such opinions toward Europe). Russia's version of events is simply the loudest.

[Strongpoint]

So, Prigozhin released an interesting video: In front of a pile of fresh Wagner corpses he, using the best examples of Russian swearing,  yells at Shoigu and Gerasimov demanding shells. Curious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvFrWtLN5Q8 - Here, one with English subtitles (GRAPHIC!!)

[Great Order]

Today, 19 civilians were killed in Kherson by Russian shellings. Media (even some Ukrainian) cares about some nearly missed flag more and even calls that ESCALATION

Well, it is a highly symbolic event I believe, whoever staged it. But the sad news (in terms of the media) is, that people killed by Russian shelling is nothing new, while possible Ukrainian drones close to the Kremlin is much more newsworthy. I hate that logic.

It's the way news works. A house being bombed during the blitz wasn't news.

The bit that's interesting is stuff that's either new or the same situation but changed. War breaks out, that's interesting. War ends, that's interesting. An average battle during a war? Not interesting. Civilians die? Interesting. Civilians die for the five hundredth time? Not interesting.

I don't know if that says something about the human condition, or our media.

[Egan_BW]

Nah, not anything so specific. It's more a property of thinking beings which exist under our laws of physics. It would take a whole lot of processing power to individually address each person who dies in a war. But turn it into a number and it's easy!

Not very accurate to the real world, but easy.

[martinuzz]

So, Prigozhin released an interesting video: In front of a pile of fresh Wagner corpses he, using the best examples of Russian swearing,  yells at Shoigu and Gerasimov demanding shells. Curious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvFrWtLN5Q8 - Here, one with English subtitles (GRAPHIC!!)

I wonder how much longer until Wagner says fuck you and disbands itself. That, or Wagner says fuck you and starts a military coup.