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[Bralbaard]

I understand that bombing oil refineries and fuel depots and such is strategic thing to do and the Russian supply must be broken. But man. The CO2. The climate.

To be fair, that oil was going to be burned anyhow, just in someones car, or tank or whatever. It looks more dramatic when you see it all burned up at once, but people are burning this crap bit by bit, day in and day out anyhow. As a result of the bombardments here there might be some russian citizens or generals unable to fuel their vehicles, or their prices will rise, which could compensate for the oil burnt here. Climate is not the problem in the Ukraine conflict.

[Strongpoint]

It is true for CO2 (in fact, less complete combustion will produce less CO2) but the amount of random shit thrown in an atmosphere will be larger. Ranging from CO to soot to nasty organic compounds.

Also, burned-down Ukrainian forests\cities\industrial objects are WAY worse for the climate than a few depots in Russia.

[Egan_BW]

I understand that bombing oil refineries and fuel depots and such is strategic thing to do and the Russian supply must be broken. But man. The CO2. The climate.

Please Ukraine, can't you instead of causing huge oil fires just bomb the cities surrounding those, where the workers of the oil refineries live with their families? At some point they must run out of qualified engineers to operate them (hint: those are much harder to replace than trench warfare meatbags).
That's less bad for the environment and thus better for humanity.

Un(?)fortunately, strategic bombing to murder civilian populations isn't very effective. You basically just spend a ton of money and effort to piss them off. See Britain in WWII, the Nazis dropped a ton of bombs on them and the result is that British people hated the Nazis and wanted them gone. Guess who won in the end.

And also destroying refineries will be better for the environment in the long term. Apply that knowledge how you will. /j

[wobbly]

The amount of environmental damage caused is small, compared to the amount of environmental damage caused by countries in better situations, not moving to cleaner solutions. I was going to say more, but I think I'll end it there.

Edit: At the end of the day, the amount of damage the Ukraine/Russian War does in a day pales before the damage the USA/Chinese economy does in a single day.

[Strongpoint]

Un(?)fortunately, strategic bombing to murder civilian populations isn't very effective. You basically just spend a ton of money and effort to piss them off. See Britain in WWII, the Nazis dropped a ton of bombs on them and the result is that British people hated the Nazis and wanted them gone. Guess who won in the end.

It... depends. I guarantee you that if Ukraine would be able to strike Moscow infrstructure leaving them without electricity\water\heating for weeks their support for war would go way down and it could end the war. And if we could outright kill few dozen thousands of Moscow residents and level few districts the war would stop being fun in a moment. 

It didn't work for Germans against Britain because there were no acceptable alternatives to being bombed. Surrending was worse than enduring bombing. Same for Ukrainians now - surrendering to stop strikes is not an option.

When you wage a war of conquest stopping this war to keep yourself alive and comfortable is a very different situation.

[Grim Portent]

My understanding is that almost all bombing campaigns against civilians in the past century have only made people more defiant towards the bombing power, rather than more willing to surrender. Dead relatives and destroyed houses become symbols to rally behind, visible signs of the barbarity of the enemy.

[Great Order]

Mmm, seems that bombing the enemy into submission only works if you're bombing them out of existence.

Although what SP is describing's less indiscriminate bombing of civilians, and more bombing of civilian infrastructure. People die, but far fewer.

Also take into account that the average Russian probably thinks they can win this. Level half of Moscow and they won't be cowed, they'll just bray for Ukraine's annihilation because they think they can win. If the conquering force thinks itself weaker, or maybe even on even footing, it might be more likely to produce a call for peace, albeit with a huge amount of resentment after that'd likely boil into another war a couple decades down the line.

[Eric Blank]

Destroying their economic and military infrastructure equally without intentionally targeting civilian residences does sound like the way to go. Refusing to attack behind Russian borders is absolutely not going to pan out.

[Lord Shonus]

I understand that bombing oil refineries and fuel depots and such is strategic thing to do and the Russian supply must be broken. But man. The CO2. The climate.

Please Ukraine, can't you instead of causing huge oil fires just bomb the cities surrounding those, where the workers of the oil refineries live with their families? At some point they must run out of qualified engineers to operate them (hint: those are much harder to replace than trench warfare meatbags).
That's less bad for the environment and thus better for humanity.

Ignoring all the other reasons why this is an incredibly stupid idea, the biggest strike against it is that it wouldn't work. The British "dehousing" campaign in WW2 (orders of magnitude more destructive than anything Ukraine could do) did little to actually stop German production (US daylight raids actually targeted at factories were much more effective) though they did tie up a lot of German resources and made it quite difficult to move troops and supplies through the ruins. The US campaign against Japan was somewhat effective but only because they were deleting entire cities from the map with each raid (had the nukes not worked out, and the war continued past August of 1945, bombing was scheduled to end by January '46 because there would be nothing left to bomb).

Lobbing what amounts to a few hand grenades into civilian houses isn't going to do shit even if you get houses that actually contain oil workers.

[martinuzz]

Three of late Navaslny's lawyers have been sentenced to three, five and five and a half years in prison, for ' membership of a terrorist organisation'.
The message is clear. Lawyers: Do not defend people who the government does not like or we'll put you in jail with them.

If there was any state of law left in Russia, we can consider it dead now.

EDIT: in other news, Iran and Russia signed a defense and trade pact for the coming 20 years.

It would not surprise me if we soon see Hezbollah fighters in Ukraine. Hezbollah is being kicked out of Syria and kicked out of Lebanon. They cannot go to Iran, because more than 80% of Iran's population does not like Hezbollah. They are fine to be supported outside of Iran, but Iranians do not want them in Iran. Where can they still go? The Ukrainian war front I guess.

[Strongpoint]

Hezbollah is very busy maintaining some political power in Lebanon, they can't afford to send people elsewhere. And no, they won't be kicked from Lebanon without a civil war that they won't concede. Also, Hezbollah fighters aren't North Koreans who can be ordered to go to some far away war. They are people with their own agency.

[Naturegirl1999]

I want the war to end, I want Russia to stop thes BS before everyone gets into WW3

[Strongpoint]

Lol. Trump wrote in Truth Social that, quote "We must never forget that Russia helped us win the Second World War." Helped This kind of wording will piss Putin off, I am quite sure.


BTW, undereducated Orange ****, it was many nations of USSR, not Russia and Russians.

[EuchreJack]

Ew, "Truth" Social.  Next, you'll be quoting Fake Twitter.

Hm, I'm cautiously optimistic about Trump's boisterous language versus Putin.  When Putin invariably fucks Trump over publicly over it, Trump will get pissy and give Ukraine a fuck ton of aid.  And nobody in the US will stop it.

[martinuzz]

'Gloria Jeans', one of Russia's oldest clothing factories, is shutting down.
In open defiance of the Russian government, the factory's owner and founder, Vladimir Melnikov, blamed Putin's 'special military operation' in an interview with Gorod N, a Russian news service in the Rostov province. He says he cannot run his factory anymore, because too many employees have been sent to the front, and because he cannot acquire the required technological products to run his factory anymore due to sanctions.
The 1500 remaining employees will be fired.

Russian economy is starting to break.