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Author Topic: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness  (Read 25040 times)

dragdeler

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of DEATH
« Reply #150 on: February 16, 2023, 03:48:06 pm »

There it is again "oh but they invested". Sir, we will require a downpayment of attention and time etc before you get to decide if we're worth it, just sign this cookie declaration first,  lawmakers make us do it, so we in turn make it as annoying as possible, we're not going to NOT use cookies, what are you mad? We milk you twice, once for showing up and once by selling your data, now piss off the article was written by a bot. Pointing spiderman meme with "entitled!" caption.

Used to be that the web was this limitless democratisation of information. You'd stumble on sites made by passionate people without even trying hard, and the quality of the information was miles ahead. Oh but where are the ads the poor guy is going to starve. Peh invested, shouldn't be that hard to mount a formal study that shows how the reliability of the information is inversely proportional to the amount of ads. But first I'm getting my social media cybertokens because my code of honor informs me that I must reward every bit of content with reddit gold, or twitch bits or whatever.

Guess I shouldn't be such an entitled bitch and let beezos listen to me snore like a normal person. I'm sure alexa will be very helpful to the kind of life I intend to live, hey alexa whats this piece of trash I scooped out of the garbage and how could it be useful to me? Hey alexa how do build a hut madmax style. No alexa I don't want to buy movie props.
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let

KittyTac

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of DEATH
« Reply #151 on: February 16, 2023, 07:36:44 pm »

So, let's say some million people start a "let's troll chatGPT about the moon" and puts KittyTac's questions into their own words. Will chatGPT ever question "is my own data suspect?"
No? It's been trained and frozen with any possible data being from no later than ~2019, and I don't think they're going to leave the door open to it being another Tay...

(That's from an external perspective. The argument that chatGPT is ever open to philosophising is restricted to similar views about whether Lemoine's statements about LaMDA are valid.)

IDK how we wound up talking about this in the balloon thread,
I know I didn't start it, and tried not to make it the main shift of conversation... Ah well. Everyone seems happy (or at least happily contributing).

You know how GPT models work, right? They don't have preset phrases. They have a repetition penalty setting. In ChatGPT it's set rather low I suppose.
My point. The example exhibits startlingly little sign of 'free and fluid reply', given the reputation it has. Unless it's just Muggles who can't see the rigid framework behind the magic, but I don't flatter myself that I'm a wizard in this world.
In a normal conversation it's less stilted, but because of how the model works it becomes repetitive if you are repetitive.
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KittyTac

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #152 on: February 16, 2023, 10:29:35 pm »

Example of another prompt that didn't trigger its defense mode:
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EuchreJack

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #153 on: February 16, 2023, 10:32:05 pm »

Machines need to be taught a certain phrase: Fuck You.
I had to learn the hard way that sometimes it is OK and Appropriate to say that.

Will they actually program their virtual slaves to have self-esteem? I doubt it.

Duuvian

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #154 on: February 17, 2023, 04:16:18 am »

They don't have emotions though, human, just words or symbols that suggest they do.    :-[
 What do you think of this?   ???  How would you suggest you have emotions?   :o

I think that story being pushed about a bingbot in love could have been a goof on that reporter especially as it has been covered extensively. Of course I have no proof, just a wild guess.

A person known for publicity stunts around a century ago that I read about and remembered from an Uncle John's Bathroom Reader I keep in an appropriate place.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Reichenbach
The Bathroom Reader suggests the following was a massive success
Spoiler: text friom wiki (click to show/hide)

Girlinhat had an AI thread from a while back, that thread might be a good one to necromance upon

As to the balloons, I think that initially a polite request to avoid such circumstances (and if it's helpful, point out some of what made the rounds in US private media if that is not rude). There may have been some circumstances where letting it fly could be argued to have been better than a shoot down, especially if the operators did actually try to speed it out (assumably this if true does not mean "directly on a bearing towards military base" as I heard on the television a few times) and if it was a malfunction. That's mostly based on the articles I've seen where the balloon was supposedly jammed from transmitting; if it was suspected it likely had some kind of drive storage on board that can be recovered as a backup to transmitting then I think the shoot down and recovery part is less criticizable in that light, if at all. Once it's been recovered and inspected, particularly I'm curious about how close did it get to the military bases and was it capable of reasonably filming those locations from the positions of driftby and did it; and was that capability known at the time? That also would be a factor to consider.

I think it's still unfortunate especially as it came shortly after a hint of the possibility of a small thawing in relations, which are the worst I can remember personallly seeing; and Biden, from a political sense, not having much choice to spare the balloon after it made the rounds due to a few days of sensational coverage.

I've also heard that the balloon was tracked from it's launching point, though I'm not remembering where I heard that so I'm not confident that's true and I'm probably missing something to explain that if it is true. The speculated target for observation was Guam or Hawaii, both of which IIRC have large naval bases (and probably other military stuff too). While that intended usage isn't going to be considered a good thing either, from what little I know I assume such things are not an uncommon or unilateral thing. If times grow calmer, and yes I realize this is a terrible idea as things are today, perhaps a balloon throughly inspected by the other country could actually decrease tension if located in such a naval port to assure the ballooneer country that there is not a military buildup there, (though I'd guess that could be determined through non-balloon methods and makes this a moot idea unless it's cheaper and effective for the purpose or symbolic in some way); but I think that would take a lot of thawing.

Not too many months ago, a missile was accidently launched from India into Pakistan or vice versa (I'd have to check to see which was the impacted and which the launcher) and despite that these two countries who have fought wars and have tense relations at times on a land border were able to carry on without either making it into a huge diplomatic incident (I don't know how it was reported in the two countries in question but I only saw essentially "It happened" and "They worked it out" articles during my nightly news readings). That seems a better route than ginning up further distrust between the two nations. It seems to me there is only one big winner to that should potential for conflict grow to inescapability, and that is not either China or the US.

Finally, does anyone know the SCP Foundation # of the walled off zone that sends out balloons with messages? I think it had something to do with cyborg animals or something too though that's not the part I was reminded of. I searched the SCP site but the search has to be for a word in the title of the SCP apparently and I have no idea what the title or number is. Obviously not related to the topic except for involving balloons.
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Starver

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #155 on: February 17, 2023, 04:59:14 am »

Example of another prompt that didn't trigger its defense mode:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Waitwhat? Bishop from c1 to b5???
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KittyTac

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #156 on: February 17, 2023, 05:19:40 am »

Example of another prompt that didn't trigger its defense mode:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Waitwhat? Bishop from c1 to b5???
Yeah this is an artifact of how it constructs its responses. It sees "bishop" and "starting position" and picks c1 randomly and not f1.

In fact stuff like this is a telltale mark of it "thinking" and trying to make connections between things rather than just taking responses from some database.
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King Zultan

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #157 on: February 17, 2023, 06:17:40 am »

I like how this thread went from OH GOD BALLOONS!!! to talking about chatbots.

Finally, does anyone know the SCP Foundation # of the walled off zone that sends out balloons with messages? I think it had something to do with cyborg animals or something too though that's not the part I was reminded of. I searched the SCP site but the search has to be for a word in the title of the SCP apparently and I have no idea what the title or number is. Obviously not related to the topic except for involving balloons.
I'd also like to know.
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jipehog

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #158 on: February 17, 2023, 06:48:30 am »

well, yeah its bal-loons, after dancing around the issue for a while google loon project gave us opening to other loony projects but hey we still maintain modicum of bad puns and hot air.


Btw, on the USA coverage of the topic, I wouldn't dismiss the notion that U.S. deliberately hyping up the matter. There is talk that the upcoming Chinese presidential trip to Russia and USA speaker of the House to Taiwan will determine where USA Chinese relations will head, if it ends in a downward spiral you'd want to have some political will to backup devised measures.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 08:06:50 am by jipehog »
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Starver

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #159 on: February 17, 2023, 10:40:52 am »

Yeah this is an artifact of how it constructs its responses. It sees "bishop" and "starting position" and picks c1 randomly and not f1.

In fact stuff like this is a telltale mark of it "thinking" and trying to make connections between things rather than just taking responses from some database.
It had (at least) three[1] different ways of 'understanding' which output would be the correct building block in its Markovean rephrasing. Obviously didn't expect Deep Blue level of intrinsic knowledge, but...

Given that the NLP element seems to be the best bit (pending more testing[2]), give or take the strength of the core knowledge before it retokenises it, I think these examples (at least) show that it's about the same as whatever the first item is in a correctly submitted search engine query, but without all the usual fuss of refining that query manually.


On the balloons, the RCMP seem to have ahandoned the search for the Lake Huron 'downer', to get back on (original) subject... And that was the one probably least blown to bits.

[1] c1 can't move; c1 can't move there by a diagonal; c1 can't move there by any combination of diagonals...

[2] I really out to try it, and challenge it to something like "My party guests have each asked for a martini, dry, single malt, liqueur, orange, and lemonade, but how many glasses will I need?"
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EuchreJack

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #160 on: February 17, 2023, 11:19:54 am »

Take note of how Biden is now walking back the balloon narrative:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/16/politics/president-biden-downed-objects/index.html

well, yeah its bal-loons, after dancing around the issue for a while google loon project gave us opening to other loony projects but hey we still maintain modicum of bad puns and hot air.


Btw, on the USA coverage of the topic, I wouldn't dismiss the notion that U.S. deliberately hyping up the matter. There is talk that the upcoming Chinese presidential trip to Russia and USA speaker of the House to Taiwan will determine where USA Chinese relations will head, if it ends in a downward spiral you'd want to have some political will to backup devised measures.
Thus, I tend to agree with this. If the talks go well, the balloon incidents will be buried (hence why I created this thread in the first place).
If the talks go poorly, this is a "safety net". It also puts the President in a better bargaining position during the talks, making it more likely they'll be successful.
Essentially, now President Biden gets to say to China:
"Come on Xi, you need me! Look how they hate you, but I can keep them buying your stuff, if only you helped me out with this..."

Dostoevsky

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #161 on: February 17, 2023, 12:59:05 pm »

In terms of DC politics China has for several years now been badguy #1 (rightly or wrongly), so from my perspective it's been less 'Biden setting up narrative' as 'Biden following existing narrative'. He's thinking midterms, and 'soft on China' is currently an epithet.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #162 on: February 17, 2023, 01:02:30 pm »

Midterms are over - he's got to worry about reelection in something like 20 months. While already having a massive foreign policy achievement. Doubt the election is the first thing on his mind here.

Big thing with this balloon is that the hype didn't start in Washington. It started in the newsrooms and especially on Twitter. Actual government statements for the first balloon were quite moderate and measured.
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Dostoevsky

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #163 on: February 17, 2023, 02:18:32 pm »

Based on my DC policy work job, at least, more than a few of his agencies already have midterms on their minds. It's not as bad as 2011-2012 Obama, but it ain't great.

Though I was more talking about the subsequent balloons than the first one - agree that the first one (and thus the spark of the overall attention) wasn't originating from the WH. But once it was breathlessly on air and in minds, can't be 'soft on China'.
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Ziusudra

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Re: Reactions to Chinese White Balloon of AI Awareness
« Reply #164 on: February 17, 2023, 05:47:03 pm »

Hobby Club’s Missing Balloon Feared Shot Down By USAF
Quote
The club’s silver-coated, party-style, “pico balloon” reported its last position on Feb. 10 at 38,910 ft. off the west coast of Alaska, and a popular forecasting tool—the HYSPLIT model provided by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)—projected the cylindrically shaped object would be floating high over the central part of the Yukon Territory on Feb. 11. That is the same day a Lockheed Martin F-22 shot down an unidentified object of a similar description and altitude in the same general area.
...
“I tried contacting our military and the FBI—and just got the runaround—to try to enlighten them on what a lot of these things probably are. And they’re going to look not too intelligent to be shooting them down,” says Ron Meadows, the founder of Scientific Balloon Solutions (SBS), a Silicon Valley company that makes purpose-built pico balloons for hobbyists, educators and scientists.
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