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[DanielCoffey]

This isn't specifically a Steam DF issue but is one of my own making. All my early forts so far have run into what feels like a labour shortage... or "too much work, not enough Dwarfs" in their first year and I am struggling to get through it so would appreciate some advice.

I think I have responded too soon to unmet needs and am finding that nothing is getting done because Dwarfs are trying to do everything... if that makes sense.

I am around the time when the first Autumn Trader arrives. There have been one or sometimes two migrant waves and the population is about 12-16 Dwarfs. The entrance is secured (but Grazers still loose outside). There are half a dozen 1x5 farm plots between a mix of surface and dwarf seeds. Tanner and Butcher are idle. Kitchen and Still are keeping up with Easy Meal and Drink demands. Farmers workshop is jumping on every plant as it comes available. Loom is working on Cloth but is limited to an amount to make. We have a small dormitory, there are a few mugs but no tables, chairs or tavern. As for industry I have one wood, stone, craft and mechanic with the first jeweller just starting. I have a water cistern and grindstone but no hospital or well. No temples or noble quarters yet. No tavern and only a few individual bedrooms.

This is where the issue starts... just prior to the first trader, everything seems to be working adequately if a bit slowly. As soon as the first merchants arrive and I scrabble for absolutely anything to sell them, all hell breaks loose. Immediately afterwards, folks are busy hauling our purchases back to storage. All the workshops fire back up to replace the stuff we just sold (you know the sort of thing... tables with four wobbly legs, mugs you can't lift with two hands). Rocks are being dragged about to the workshops. Orders for the first few luxuries so soothe the now upset dwarfs (mostly caused by rain, lack of temples and no tables) such as coffers and cabinets are not getting made. No doors available yet. Can't dig the bedrooms because we are rolling rocks. Forget about the second stonemason as we are busy hauling cheese you just bought and can finally plant the pigtail seeds in that new farm plot... apart from the one next to it which we are too busy to build. Archery tower? No sir, we have no stone blocks. Food rotting on the floor under workshops? Nobody seems to be free to put it into barrels... if we had any made.

I suspect I am giving them too much to do and don't know how to resolve the issue. Even though work orders have upper limits (and they are small ones) there is simply too much queued to do.

Do I slow down and put up with unhappy dwarfs by cancelling all the luxuries or do I just persist and wait it out by effectively putting a sign on the door saying "Closed for staff training. Please invade later."

Each time this happens, I throw the fort away as "broken" and try again only to fall into the same trap. That first expansion of items to meet needs but not enough Dwarfs to fulfil the work.

[Stormfeather]

Yeah, one thing I would say is to not dive headfirst into making sure every unmet need is met 100%. Like I start off with a dormitory, rather than individual bedrooms. I maybe hand-make a few coffins to tide me over while I make actual furniture. Ditto not immediately making any noble/officer rooms exactly what they want as long as they can function. Then as you do get the first, more important needs met, start increasing what you do.

Another thing I'll say you can do (although it can have its own downsides) - if you make a tavern and make sure you have some sleeping areas assigned to it, you'll start having guests and start having some that will want to join the fortress. Unlike at least some previous versions, you can actually give any entertainers that join some tasks to do. I honestly don't know how *good* they are at doing these tasks compared to your regular civilians, but they will work on them. So if you get caught out by the lack of a few migrants waves until word gets out about how awesome and rich your fortress is, that can help in a pinch.

For me, I tend to have my dwarfs specialize pretty narrowly, and just not even start on some tasks (tailoring, metalsmithing, furnaces) until I have enough dwarfs to start to handle more tasks. (Dunno if this is the best way to do things, it's just how I do it). And I would suggest removing the hauling task from some of your more important dwarfs that have tasks you REALLY need done (like stoneworkers - I think stoneCARVERs? I get the stonecarvers and stonecutters mixed up sometimes still). Of course that's a pain on its own because it means taking hauling away from "everyone does this" and assigning it to every dwarf as they join but it might be worth it.

[Thisfox]

Stockpile locations is a great factor. I tend to make my Trade Depot under an overhang of dirt (or even under a roof) so that it's impossible for dorfs to go outside to get to the depot. I have low-quality stockpiles for things that the traders might want to buy right there under that same overhang (not all the way around the trade depot or the traders might not make it in) so that when I'm moving stuff to the depot, it takes no time to do so. And if a kea steals a cheap table with one short leg, then it's not a big deal. Other stockpiles should be near workshops, so it takes no time to move things, no time to get them to the location specified.

The other thing is, prioritise your dorfs time. I tend to use the first year to dirtgrub a small fort in the dirt layers above the aquifer (yes, I am aquifer obsessed, and it used to be a tough task to get through a multilayer aquifer, before they introduced light aquifers, so it was a job for when I had more dorfs) and set up the essential living arrangements, a feasting hall, a garden. A place to live, a place to sleep, a place to do the essential workshop things. Then, in the second year, dig down and make a really good fort well below aquifer level, defensible in various ways, with lockable doors and floodgates everywhere, full of temples, wellrooms, taverns, a library. You don't need to do it all at once.

[DanielCoffey]

Thank you for the tips... I think I have just given them too much to do and had tried to create a "permanent" fort with the first couple of migrant waves. I will have to get into the mentality of having a topside compact mini-fort with a little of everything and once I start seeing "no job" indicators, go deeper.

[Blue_Dwarf]

There are half a dozen 1x5 farm plots between a mix of surface and dwarf seeds.

That's one of your problems. You don't need to farm in the first year.

Your 7 dwarves should eat around 42 units of food by the time your first caravan arrives. You can bring enough food with you, or cook two barrels of drinks (50) with two stacks of plump helmets, that's 60 food right there. You also need around 105 actual drinks as well, all of which you can easily bring with you, and simply gather a few plants if you need some. When the caravan comes, you can buy more food and drinks than you'll ever need for quite a while.

I only start my plant cloth industry towards the end of the second year, where I both have the labor, and old clothing is starting to wear out.

[Salmeuk]

eh, i would argue that the new version has decreased food production from farms so starting those early is worthwhile, especially if your fortress is growing quickly.

re: OP, some tips:

1. don't make stockpiles early, especially for highly-trafficked items like wood or stone, or finished goods, or clothing, or anything except food really. Stockpiles are your problem here %100. remember, dwarves do NOT care if things are organized, it is your OCD talking. just let finished items sit in workshops until you get enough labor to actually haul

2. don't work on every industry at the same time. my order of operation is food storage -- dormitory -- dining room -- temple -- masonry and so on.

3. make sure early industry is efficient. this means wheelbarrows. as Thisfox said, placement of stockpiles is alsoimportant. give your stoneworker's shop a custom stockpile so they are not hauling boulders without wheelbarrows and you will see a huge increase in speed of block / furniture production.

4. make lots of high value goods in the first year to attract early and large migrant waves the following year. make sure you export that first autumn for best effect. though honestly this is untested, probably placebo, so don't trust this as mechanical advice

my opinion is that you should always carve out a temporary fortress that is highly modular with large open room plans for the first two years, and use that to leapfrog to a well-designed and specialized fortress in some other location. this lets you make sweeping changes to your various workshop locations and stockpiles to focus on the immediate needs of your workers

tl;dr dont stuff the whole cake in your mouth, you gotta cut slices, and chew... and use a goddamn fork thats disgusting

[Flying Dice]

Yep, sounds like a combination of spreading yourself too thin and not making dwarfs cross-work.

Year 1 I have exactly these two chunks of priorities:

1. Dig out entrance w/ dorm, small craft/storage room, depot room, 3x5 farm left permanently on plump helmets.

2. Shit tiny manager/bookkeeper office and dining hall in the dorm. Repeating work order for 10 brew cycles if drinks <20 and brewable plants >20. Start mining out room/workshop/dining hall space, have someone cut all gems mined.

That's it. By the end of year 1 I want only a few things done: inside living quarters for hot-bunking 10-20 dwarfs, stable food/drink cycle based solely on plump helmets, some cut gems for trading. They won't go crazy from one year of hard living, a smoothed dorm, micro dining area, and booze are enough for that.


I embark with 5 picks if at all possible. Mining trains quickly, and everyone except the woodcutter and militia commander doubles as a miner/mason/stonecutter/smoother/mechanic/furnace op for the first year or two. New migrants get slapped into that or a generalist farmer labor unless they have a very useful skill. I don't bother splitting anything except woodworkers off of the stone/food split for 2ish years, the doctors, crafters, &c. are all also doing other shit unless I need to restrict them temporarily for a high-priority job (i.e. my weapon/armorsmith).

[Panando]

Sometimes I have embarked with 6 military dwarves and 1 civilian (typically Cook/Herbalist unless a dwarf likes steel in which case possibly Weaponsmith/Armorsmith), then I have all 6 military dwarves start training in squads of 2 or 3, and it's permanent training, though occasionally I might relieve them of military duty to help with the fruits of butchering an animal they've slain.

The labor shortage with only 1 dwarf is real, but it's still entirely possible for that 1 dwarf to keep the fort going, since once you've got the beds down (can be be simple dorm or 1x1 bedrooms on dirt) and a modest dining hall (as in a couple of chairs and a couple of tables on dirt) all you really need to keep the fort alive is to produce food and booze: that's why the Cook/Herbalist combo is easy, because Herbalism is good for both food and booze (to make more food, cook the seeds), but it's still workable with a non-farmer as the 7th, the pots of booze are just much smaller unless you embark with garden vegetables to make booze from: and that is an option, you just spend like 60 points on garden vegetables and are pretty much sorted for booze until the autumn caravan arrives with no need to touch farming or herbalism, and the caravan will bring a crapload of plants if you don't have any in stock.

A labor shortage is nothing more than trying to do too much.

[Thisfox]

Unless things have changed in the recent STEAM, dorms are totally unnecessary at first. Just construct some beds in nice quiet places (alcoves in the hallway, etc) and don't bother making them a room of any sort. Whenever I make them a dorm, I get dorfs whinging about having to sleep in a dorm or whatever, but when they're simply constructed, I don't get the whinging, I have no idea why.

[Mungrul]

One thing I will add having had several fortresses grind to a halt before this one:
Do not mess with labour assignments.
Like, at all.
Just leave them as default, and everything stands a better chance of getting done.

My current fortress, where I haven't changed those settings at all, not even setting miners to only mine, I issue a smooth or build order and a swarm of dwarves descend to complete the job toot sweet.

[anewaname]

Until the first merchants have come through, I might have 4 beds and two table/chairs in a 5x5 area in the soil layer, and a 5x4 roofed wooden room around the wagon. A few high-use workshops underground and less-used ones on the surface. The tavern, temple, and other amenities are late autumn and early winter projects. And somewhere in there, the miner keeps going down until they release the fungal bloom.

[DanielCoffey]

Thanks folks - I have had success with a dirt chamber with little zones for sleeping and eating - no poor moods and things are steadily being done. I have just got through the first Winter and while I have not tried to find the caverns yet, am slowly expanding into the rock layers for the simple industries, the proper tavern and temples and storage. I have made some small bedrooms in the dirt layer as well as moved my dormitory down into the rock with a smoothed floor. Slowly getting there. It seems the trick is to pace myself and make them wait for amenities and new crafts.

[Thorfinn]

One thing I find incredibly useful is deconstructing (stone)crafts and masons workshops when you run out of nearby stones. (Yes, you can effectively disable the workshop, and deconstruction only gives you back the one stone anyway. You do you. And, of course, if you aren't using work orders yet, idle workshops don't matter at all.) Construct new shops wherever the stones are now rather than hauling stones halfway across your fort. You can even build them a dozen or so tiles apart and get significant improvement, depending on the mason's stats, believe it or not. It's a whole lot faster to carry a bunch of crafts to the depot than it is to carry a bunch of stones to somewhere near the depot, even with wheelbarrows.

Some of this depends on your personal goals. I don't bother with cloth/dye until at least fall, but the first food/booze gets planted early, day four at the absolute latest, as aquifer piercing does not require two dedicated miners, so one spends most of his time getting dirt layer stuff readied. I also recommend Panando's Cook/Herbalist route. Have the cook empty a few "free" barrels, brew up all the plumps you brought along, then herbalist a plant, brew, herbalist, brew, repeat until you need more barrels, cook a bit, repeat. One guy on those three tasks is a great plenty for a long time.

You don't HAVE to dig out dirt barracks or dirt dining hall right away. I generally do, because what else are the miners doing while everyone else is installing blocks in the aquifer? Once through have one miner dig out new dining and barracks (and individual rooms) a couple levels below the aquifer while the other rushes to the caverns (to get underground grazing) and lava sea (so I can make magma furnaces etc. near the surface), but again, you get to decide what mileposts you want for your fort. Once I have a proper (engraved) barracks/dining hall under the aquifer, dig out the dirt layer barracks and dining hall, convert them to pasture, and Bob's your uncle.

[Thisfox]

There are half a dozen 1x5 farm plots between a mix of surface and dwarf seeds.

That's one of your problems. You don't need to farm in the first year.

I actually use the dirt meeting hall from the first year as my farming area for the second year, as we've got something more cushy to meet in by then.

Thanks folks - I have had success with a dirt chamber with little zones for sleeping and eating - no poor moods and things are steadily being done. I have just got through the first Winter and while I have not tried to find the caverns yet, am slowly expanding into the rock layers for the simple industries, the proper tavern and temples and storage. I have made some small bedrooms in the dirt layer as well as moved my dormitory down into the rock with a smoothed floor. Slowly getting there. It seems the trick is to pace myself and make them wait for amenities and new crafts.

That it is! Glad you've got something that works better.

[Duuvian]

A tip might be to keep stockpile destinations close to workshops producing, or eliminate them for things you want to decorate in the same workshop, for example making totems and then decorating them near your refuse (bones) stockpile. If you don't have a stockpile taking totems, you can save the hauling jobs in between and decorate them easily as the totems are nearest the dwarf in the workshop, at the cost of workshop clutter. If clutter becomes very bad, it can be rectified with a mass dump order over the workshop with an adjacent dump zone, though the hauler dwarves picked can travel a long way for the dump order.

Spoiler: Suggestion (click to show/hide)

I sort of wish a limit to hauling could be placed by workshop, so the stockpile waits until there is a full bin worth of goods accumulated in a workshop before a hauler is tasked, and that they went to grab an empty bin (or wheelbarrow) to put the items into rather than many dwarves taking a task to haul a single item each. Also maybe value thresholds for stockpiles so for example a masterwork scepter can be bedazzled up to a certain value and then tasked for hauling to your treasure vault, or an (+item+) decorated into being considered a fort made item for trading and offering purposes and then hauled to the trade good stockpile by the depot after a single decoration rather than being stacked with every type of bone near the workshop as the bonecarver grabs them. A value field in the core/final qualities of stockpiles maybe?

A good idea for things like a magma sea level metal industry or other distant "wings" of the fort is to build amenities for the workers there so they don't travel 100 levels upstairs to take care of needs as often, though the haul to and from there will still be a long walk. Maybe a burrow would help even more with the above stuff by keeping the haulers in the area, but I usually regret using those for long periods ("Urist McBurrow has been found dead!").