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[scaso]

Hi! This is my first post. I'm playing v47 Classic and I've managed so far by following the guide in the wiki. I've had a little look around this forum and seen a few posts talking about taverns. Currently, all I have is a generic "meeting area" (I think) /dining hall, which seems to do the job. The only visitors I get are monster slayers. It seems to me that the upsides of taverns are happiness modifiers, socialising, and performer visitors, and the downsides are brawls, spys/rumours, and death by alcohol poisoning. This leads me to the question, are taverns worthwhile? Hopefully someone with more experience than me could let me know.

A secondary consideration is needing rooms for long term visitors? Currently my visitors sleep on the floor til they rather quickly petition for residency. Would rooms for the tavern be required?

[thriftshopmusketeer]

Taverns are a great way to promote the social lives of your dwarves, but more importantly, they're fun. Look at those little guys go, dancing and singing and brawling. Sometimes the tavern will be a source of trouble but that's honestly an upside.

As for rooms: nonresidents don't get pissed about sleeping on the floor so far as I can tell but it's pretty unattractive to have a bunch of smelly vagrants scattered across the fortress. I'd build a dormitory at least.

[Saiko Kila]

Taverns are great to attract visitors, including mercenaries (my favourites), as well as some others. If memory serves me, they won't petition for long term residency unless there are free rooms - they will only hang around otherwise and then leave after some time. I always make rooms anyway. Additionally if you assign rooms to tavern location, they will choose one and will sleep only in this room, which makes it easy to find them.

Monster slayers don't need rooms or tavern for that matter. Later there won't be many of them coming if any, if you have a tavern, only "normal" visitors (like mercs and artists).

[Ziusudra]

It seems to me that the upsides of taverns are happiness modifiers, socialising, and performer visitors, and the downsides are brawls, spys/rumours, and death by alcohol poisoning. This leads me to the question, are taverns worthwhile?

Taverns can be set to only allow citizens to prevent visitors, and you can either not assign any staff to the tavern or not assign any mugs to prevent poisoning.

[Shonai_Dweller]

It seems to me that the upsides of taverns are happiness modifiers, socialising, and performer visitors, and the downsides are brawls, spys/rumours, and death by alcohol poisoning. This leads me to the question, are taverns worthwhile?

Taverns can be set to only allow citizens to prevent visitors, and you can either not assign any staff to the tavern or not assign any mugs to prevent poisoning.

Is mass poisoning even a thing any more?
I think I've lost one goblin visitor to a suspected case since 50.01 was released and have played a lot since then. Most I seem to see is the occasional crazy human poet being helped to the hospital after passing out (and not dying).

[A_Curious_Cat]

It seems to me that the upsides of taverns are happiness modifiers, socialising, and performer visitors, and the downsides are brawls, spys/rumours, and death by alcohol poisoning. This leads me to the question, are taverns worthwhile?

Taverns can be set to only allow citizens to prevent visitors, and you can either not assign any staff to the tavern or not assign any mugs to prevent poisoning.

Is mass poisoning even a thing any more?
I think I've lost one goblin visitor to a suspected case since 50.01 was released and have played a lot since then. Most I seem to see is the occasional crazy human poet being helped to the hospital after passing out (and not dying).

Remind me again, does DF have absinthe?

[Shonai_Dweller]

It seems to me that the upsides of taverns are happiness modifiers, socialising, and performer visitors, and the downsides are brawls, spys/rumours, and death by alcohol poisoning. This leads me to the question, are taverns worthwhile?

Taverns can be set to only allow citizens to prevent visitors, and you can either not assign any staff to the tavern or not assign any mugs to prevent poisoning.

Is mass poisoning even a thing any more?
I think I've lost one goblin visitor to a suspected case since 50.01 was released and have played a lot since then. Most I seem to see is the occasional crazy human poet being helped to the hospital after passing out (and not dying).

Remind me again, does DF have absinthe?

Heh he. Sewer brew is surely deadly and green. The poets love that stuff.
But, no aniseed I think, so no absinthe.

[Ziusudra]

Is mass poisoning even a thing any more?
I think I've lost one goblin visitor to a suspected case since 50.01 was released and have played a lot since then. Most I seem to see is the occasional crazy human poet being helped to the hospital after passing out (and not dying).

I don't know but the OP says they're playing .47, so it doesn't matter.

[Mobbstar]

If it is an internal-only tavern, then you can leave the alcohol and tables out entirely.  You won't get rumors or mercs, but your own treasure and dwarves will be safe.  They won't get drunk to the point of brawling or plain dying.  They will still want to make music and dance, and they will tell each others stories and poems.

In other words, if you only care about the socialising and happiness, designate a wide empty room as citizen-only tavern.  I like to make "back-streets" where people chatter and dance for fun.

[A_Curious_Cat]

If it is an internal-only tavern, then you can leave the alcohol and tables out entirely.  You won't get rumors or mercs, but your own treasure and dwarves will be safe.  They won't get drunk to the point of brawling or plain dying.  They will still want to make music and dance, and they will tell each others stories and poems.

In other words, if you only care about the socialising and happiness, designate a wide empty room as citizen-only tavern.  I like to make "back-streets" where people chatter and dance for fun.

I’ve found that people still come after my artifacts, even when I do that.  I think the liaison and/or their bodyguards have to do with it.

[Shonai_Dweller]

If it is an internal-only tavern, then you can leave the alcohol and tables out entirely.  You won't get rumors or mercs, but your own treasure and dwarves will be safe.  They won't get drunk to the point of brawling or plain dying.  They will still want to make music and dance, and they will tell each others stories and poems.

In other words, if you only care about the socialising and happiness, designate a wide empty room as citizen-only tavern.  I like to make "back-streets" where people chatter and dance for fun.

Oh, OK. Guess look back over the past three years of threads to see what old stuff was like before the bugs were fixed then.

[Telgin]

In other words, if you only care about the socialising and happiness, designate a wide empty room as citizen-only tavern.  I like to make "back-streets" where people chatter and dance for fun.

This is an interesting idea, and I'm going to have to try this in my current fort.

On a different note, since I haven't played very much since taverns were added to the game, is there any sensible way to combine communal dining rooms with taverns?  I assume they need to be separately designated meeting areas for room value reasons, and that citizens don't eat in taverns so you do still need a dining room to avoid unhappy thoughts.

[martinuzz]

I only have a single (residents only) tavern, designated from my only communal dining room. There is no overlap penalty, you only get that if you paint two locations over one another.

As far as I can tell, the tavern also functions as a dining room. I see dwarves with the 'dined in a legendary dining room' thought, so it must work somehow.

However I sometimes see dwarves grabbing a meal from one of my meal stockpiles that is outside the tavern, and eating it on the spot.
So I'm not 100% sure if the dining room works exactly as intended, or that it only works because I also have a prepared meal stockpile in there (so when a dwarf grabs and eats a meal from that stockpile, it eats in the dining room location)

EDIT: it seems to be the latter. It looks like if you designate a tavern from a dining hall, even if it is your only dining hall, dwarves will no longer use it as a dining hall.

Followed some dwarves closely. If they take food from my prepared food stockpile that is not in the tavern, they will either eat it there at the spot, or claim the (single) table in the library for eating it (which gives no legendary dining room thought, and gives a dined at a crowded table thought if the second chair on the opposite end of the table is in use.

If they take food from the prepared food stockpile inside the tavern / dining room, they will eat it at the spot if there's no seat availble in the library, without sitting down at a table. They will get the legendary dining room thought though, so putting your prepared meals stockpile inside the tavern/dining room is a workaround, as long as you keep the tables and chairs in other locations to a bare minimum.

[Shonai_Dweller]

In other words, if you only care about the socialising and happiness, designate a wide empty room as citizen-only tavern.  I like to make "back-streets" where people chatter and dance for fun.

This is an interesting idea, and I'm going to have to try this in my current fort.

On a different note, since I haven't played very much since taverns were added to the game, is there any sensible way to combine communal dining rooms with taverns?  I assume they need to be separately designated meeting areas for room value reasons, and that citizens don't eat in taverns so you do still need a dining room to avoid unhappy thoughts.

Think of a tavern as a location made up of lots of different zones. Dining halls, sculpture gardens, general meeting areas (dance floors), bedrooms, etc. The zones don't have to touch, a tavern can be hundreds of Z-levels tall and spread throughout the fortress if you want. All you have to do is "assign" them as part of the tavern.

Any zone that is attached to your tavern will be used for socializing, singing, poetry spouting and drinking and the zones will be used for their own uses too (eating in the dining halls, admiring statues in the sculpture garden, bedrooms for visitors, etc).

[scaso]

Thanks all for the discussion, I feel much better informed about taverns.  I'm now looking forwards to implementing one in my fort, in one style or another