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Author Topic: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Game Over, Town win  (Read 36290 times)

Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #600 on: January 11, 2023, 01:39:34 am »

The Whiteboard
FallacyofUrist: 4: hector13, Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin, webadict
Jim Groovester: 1: FallacyofUrist

Shorten: 5: FallacyofUrist, hector13, Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin, webadict


  FallacyofUrist simply stands up and looks around. "Fine. You do not want me here, so I shall leave. Maybe you'll be safer with me gone, but maybe not. Whatever your fate, I shall be rid of you."

  He nearly reaches the door when the bullet hits him. He slumps against the door frame, and several more bullets splatter the door with a deep red.

  "Nah." Webadict says, holding the pistol. "We're not falling for that."

  It's...over?

  Huh.

  Well, now you need to worry about something worse. What's the Corp going to do when they find out a Comms Unit worth almost as much as the rest of the Colony combined got trashed?




Game over!

Not the most exciting game ever, I'm afraid. Our poor dopps had a few issues that hampered them. And I think I'll need to get rid of PMs in Paranormals. It wasn't bad back when we had larger games with more 3rd parties, but with the numbers we get these days I think it's just too much of a town advantage.

I also caused myself a bit of grief by selecting a set-up with 3 Mediums before thinking through how on earth that was going to work with Discord. The bot that I made worked reasonably well, but caused some confusion and made the Dopps game a bit harder than it should have.

Power-wise, I don't think it was too unbalanced. Town had two fairly weak investigative powers (Intelligence scientist and Observant Guard), an Enchanter and a Psychic Warden who could cause as much harm as help, and a bit of a wild card with the Cutting Edge Scientist. Heroic Guard is the weakest of them without any additional killers around, and the Mediums can be helpful but how much they help depends on who dies with what knowledge.

Dopps had a fairly powerful set up, really. Detective is a great scum role, Agent allows for a good fake-claim, and the Medium means they're not necessarily out of the loop with what town learns from the dead.

All in all, a relatively low-power setup for a Paranormal overall.

Role PMs and Night actions in the next post.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #601 on: January 11, 2023, 01:42:49 am »

Spoiler: Role PMs (click to show/hide)


Spoiler: Night 1 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Night 2 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Night 3 (click to show/hide)
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #602 on: January 11, 2023, 01:54:41 am »

I don’t actually think our setup was that powerful. All we had was investigation against two protects, two scientists, and a roleblocker.

We needed at least one interference role to match up evenly.

I think the mistake here was optimism? Basically the idea that the players will play their roles as best possible, or that things will go as well as possible for both sides.

But they didn’t. Everything about that setup was stacked against us.
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #603 on: January 11, 2023, 02:01:15 am »

I think PMs did far more than any role power to cause you issues, really. You and NQT were being sussed out as dopps without any roles giving information on you.
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hector13

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #604 on: January 11, 2023, 02:04:12 am »

To be fair you got very unlucky to have all of you among the pool of suspects on D1, then get outed on N1, and then be in a situation you had no way out of D2.

It was like webadict’s last game except the scum didn’t accidentally on purpose kill themselves.

PMs were bad for scum though. You were assuredly my #1 scum pick, but if Max hadn’t PM’d me I’d have had a tougher time on D2, having something like 5 null reads to sort through, as opposed to the three I had left afterward.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #605 on: January 11, 2023, 02:05:08 am »

The power setup was pretty weak for mafia, but honestly, this game was lost in the daytime. And a little bit in the deadtime. It was like web's Supernatural, but with the scumteam getting tunnelled from the word go even harder.

PMs absolutely destroyed it, of course. The scumteam getting tunnelled from the word go is bad enough, but the strongest town players then using that to form a clique mutually confirming each other... it just became a massacre. I honestly think town could have lynched correctly every day if EuchreJack had kept his head at the end of d1.

I think PMs did far more than any role power to cause you issues, really. You and NQT were being sussed out as dopps without any roles giving information on you.
Oh, this reminds me. I wanted to explain how I knew it was notquitethere in the deadchat:
You said "Hello KnightWing". Vector's said "KnightWing" a couple times, and hector once, but you're the only one who capitalizes it that way regularly.
Yes, I realize how cruel a thing to pick up on that was.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 02:07:20 am by Maximum Spin »
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #606 on: January 11, 2023, 03:12:29 am »

PMs are pretty good. I don't think scum wins with them removed from the game but they have a much better fighting chance.

The smart thing to do would be to remove the ability to PM from the game but at bare minimum they should be much more mechanically interesting than they are currently. It shouldn't just be free, unlimited private communication, there should be some limit or drawback or other mechanical dimension to their use. E.G., prohibit PMs except for a role that lets a player privately communicate with only one other player per phase, a role that passively snoops on other players' PMs, making it publicly visible which players are PMing each other, letting the dopps kill players that PM them at night as a free action, etc.

Also not too much of a fan of Observant Guard, but on thinking it through I don't think I'm a fan of the Vengeful Guard either. The secondary effects of the protection feel like they are more rewarding than they need to be. Even if they didn't stop the player they're protecting from dying, I think I would still consider them pretty good roles.

Also not much of a fan of slots under replacement being able to perform night actions, but the scum team probably needed it this game.
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I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.

webadict

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #607 on: January 11, 2023, 05:19:59 am »

Okay, technically, they weren't that underpowered, assuming optimal play and perfect knowledge.  That wasn't the only factor in their loss, true, but...

But, I'll argue that they were underpowered anyway.  Agent might be a good fakeclaim, but without a bit more knowledge of the composition, it really doesn't really stack up all that well.  There was one person that could confirm Vector's action, so it would actually be a bit of a detriment, an unprovablility that makes them suspicious.  Three Mediums also did few favors for the Dopp team (there's always someone evil in 3s!)  Also, I am always wary of Role Cops, as they tend to be scum.

If I were to change this game, I would give the Town another confirmation tool by switching the Warden and the Investigator.  It gives the Dopps plausibility and confirmation.  Also, drop Dopp Medium as a possibility because it is bad for everyone involved (Town doesn't want a bad faith Medium, and Dopps want a real power.)  So, switch Medium to a Reporter or a Scientist (probably Cutting Edge, for the redirection beam, but another of the one that can't kill is good too.)  Also, probably no Enchanter, and give someone in the Town an anti Tech Shield.

Mutual confirmation would've given the Dopps a better fighting chance, that's for sure.

That's my two cents.  Good game,  Dopps.  You played well given the circumstances.

Also, wtf TricMagic, why did you play so well?!
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EuchreJack

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #608 on: January 11, 2023, 05:37:44 am »

That was significantly more straightforward than I expected from the Paranormal game family.

I won, but I contributed less than nothing.  Eh, it happens sometimes.

notquitethere

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #609 on: January 11, 2023, 05:56:37 am »

Giving town a block, inspects, and multiple protects in such a small game without any counter-interference is a bit rough, it puts all the night momentum in town's hands. Also observant guard + two town mediums guarantees you clear a medium and kill a dopp in one move.

That all said, town played well, Toony especially managed to pick the entire scum team early on D1, mostly through POE and correctly reading people like KW as town. We had to fight hard to get that D1 mislynch and it was all downhill from there, especially when EJ created a thunderdome situation with the two fakeclaimed agents, and I misunderstood the medium bot and outed myself to Max without even realising there was a third medium.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #610 on: January 11, 2023, 06:12:19 am »

Having checked out the deadchat/medium bot, it was pretty cool, but hurt our mediums because those of us who didn't know about it thought it was a simple invite to deadchat.

I think the setup itself was too town-sided.  Mafia actually doesn't need any inspection roles, since they know who is not-mafia.  It was kind of a screwjob giving the mafia an inspect with no third parties.  Which is fine, except there wasn't anything powerful to balance it out.  Mafia, in my humble opinion, needed either a roleblock or a strongman.

ToonyMan

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #611 on: January 11, 2023, 07:21:04 am »

It would help if FoU and NQT weren't scum every game.

EDIT:
Spoiler: Some PMs (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 07:45:45 am by ToonyMan »
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TricMagic

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Day 4
« Reply #612 on: January 11, 2023, 10:20:57 am »

Randomly ends overnight, gg. A more relaxed playstyle seems to suit me. I would be the type of executioner to not kill though.

Jim. Dragon.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Game Over, Town win
« Reply #613 on: January 11, 2023, 10:56:39 am »

I'll have to think about some stuff. Most of the core rules for Paranormal came out when getting 14 players was easy, and we often had more. That made for more 3rd parties and generally more chaotic situations. It also made the death of any particular player generally less impactful. With only 11 players, things play out very differently.

If nothing else, the weights my script uses for roles should be adjusted for different sized games.

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webadict

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 27 - Game Over, Town win
« Reply #614 on: January 11, 2023, 11:12:08 am »

I'll have to think about some stuff. Most of the core rules for Paranormal came out when getting 14 players was easy, and we often had more. That made for more 3rd parties and generally more chaotic situations. It also made the death of any particular player generally less impactful. With only 11 players, things play out very differently.

If nothing else, the weights my script uses for roles should be adjusted for different sized games.
Yeah.  For an 11p game, it wasn't super broken.  The scumteam got a really bad break, and I think the only way that gets fixed is with role power.  A different configuration may have helped, but, really, I think that giving the scumteam more active roles (or protective ones, like Leader) that help them might just be a preferred outcome, even if they are still underpowered.  The Town can always have less power, because fuck 'em.

Also, consider modifiers for the scumteam!
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