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[el Indio]

I've been changing the assigned roles to see what is important, including removing all roles assigned from the hospital zone.  With nothing assigned from hospital, but still having a healthcare work detail, I had a dwarf taken to hospital and they just lay there with no help.  I then assigned a doctor from the hospital zone and they got diagnosed and treated, but the dwarf I assigned as doctor then just started hanging around in the hospital with 'no job', (the injured dwarf has been treated and left the hospital now).  I didn't assign a doctor until after the dwarf had been rescued.  It's hard to know what is a bug and what is working as intended with the changes to zones.

[Putnam]

That all sounds pretty normal. If you have a doctor guild hall, the doctor will also hang out there, mind.

[el Indio]

Hanging out in the guild hall would mean socialising though, and potentially learning.  I will have to make a guild hall for the doctors.

[Sirus]

More weirdness. I added a custom Healthcare labor and gave it to my chief medical dwarf. When a cheesemaker took a chomp to the torso from a cave crocodile, the CMD went to the hospital, diagnosed the injuries, and treated them one by one. Great!

But later, when a militiadwarf took some injuries fighting a minotaur, the CMD didn't do anything except clean the wounds. One of the dwarfs I assigned the diagnostic role did the actual inspection, and a dwarf that AFAIK had no medical skills at and wasn't assigned any medical roles did all the treatment.

Is it a severity issue maybe? The chomped cheesemaker had fractured ribs and a dented lung, while the militiadwarf only had lacerations and bruising.

[crazyabe]

Honestly seems like whatever Janky method toady used to separate medical labours from regular labours doesn’t entirely work, or has some missapplied default values sonewhere- I’ve seen medical dwarves ignore their jobs while limited to *just* healthcare, and random peasants decide to play doctor on their fellow dwarf when as far as I can tell they shouldn’t be allowed to do so.

[anewaname]

It looks like the minimum a player needs to do when they start a fort is to create a Hospital, assign a Chief Medical Dwarf, and assign a dwarf to the Hospital's Doctor position, so one additional step than in previous DF versions.

@crazyabe
The change Toady made was to have the Suturing and Wound Dressing automatically enabled on all dwarfs just like Recovering Wounded and Feeding Patients. He did this by creating the Orderlies work detail. If you prefer only certain dwarfs to do those jobs, set the Orderlies Work Detail to Only Selected Do This and add your dwarfs to it, but this might also effect who goes to recover the wounded.

@Sirus
It was a severity issue. The fractured ribs needed Bone Setting, a skill enabled by assigning your Hospital a Doctor or a Bone Doctor. The lacerations needed Suturing and Wound Dressing, so the Orderlies work detail handled it.

[Flying Dice]

random peasants decide to play doctor on their fellow dwarf when as far as I can tell they shouldn’t be allowed to do so.

This is specifically because in the Steam release almost all of the default labor roles are set to "everyone does this". So you have every single dwarf doing basically every job that doesn't require a specialized tool (mining, woodcutting, hunting).

I genuinely have no fucking clue why it's set up that way, or why the labor screen makes it as difficult as possible to precisely assign labors to dwarfs. It's even worse than the old methods for assigning work with*** DT.


edit: that was a key word to mess up lmao

[se5a]

Yeah I'm struggling to wrap my head around this, it seems a bit messy:
 - We've got the Chef Med Dwarf assignment in the nobles/administrators screen
 - Assignments in the hospital zone
 - Orderlies labor assignment (being a default assignment there is no way to see exactly what labors this enables if you assign dwarfs to specialize in it)

The way zone assignments and labors overlap a bit and its quite messy, especially since they both have the "dwarf only does these tasks" button in both places, but no real way to see exactly what these are enabling.   
I'm assuming zone assignments set a labor or set of labors that don't have an assignment in the labors screen, and I'm guessing you could custom it giving the same result?

I've currently got half my fortress resting in the hospital, I think my problem was having orderlies set to specific dwarfs, who got mauled by my very good surgeon and ended up resting in the hospital themselfs, so noone got sutured or bandaged, things seem to be moving now I've set orderlies to everyone.
(I ended up banishing the surgeon due to his frequent temper tantrums, he killed more dwarfs than he healed, he was even supposedly quite happy!).

[Bumber]

I don't get why recovering wounded and giving water aren't hauling tasks, frankly. They've got no skill associated with them, but have been grouped with the skilled healthcare labors forever.

Usually I have my soldiers recover the wounded in my forts, for the obvious reason.

[se5a]

And there still seems to be the problem with hospitals creating tons of half full buckets of water.

[Sirus]

I've noticed that myself, my hospital is slowly accumulating buckets that no one seems to want to touch. A random bit of thread too.

[anewaname]

So, a dwarf's arm is ripped open and they bleed a trail to the hospital.

Do you want their wound to get cleaned, sutured, and dressed as soon as possible, or not? Because Suturing and Wound Dressing jobs do not benefit from higher skill levels except that the job gets done quicker.

You can say "I want only these dwarfs to do these jobs", but not all other players will agree.

[Putnam]

random peasants decide to play doctor on their fellow dwarf when as far as I can tell they shouldn’t be allowed to do so.

This is specifically because in the Steam release almost all of the default labor roles are set to "everyone does this". So you have every single dwarf doing basically every job that doesn't require a specialized tool (mining, woodcutting, hunting).

I genuinely have no fucking clue why it's set up that way, or why the labor screen makes it as difficult as possible to precisely assign labors to dwarfs. It's even worse than the old methods for assigning work without DT.

1. Surgery, bone doctoring and diagnostician are not in fact on by default, only wound dressing and suturing, neither of which have any issues with those with no skills doing them except speed. Fishing is also off-by-default, if that wasn't clear.
2. If you really think work details are worse than the old system, you either haven't used the old system or you didn't even try to use the new one before going to complain about it
3. It's set up that way because most skills literally do not matter at all and people shouldn't have to assign labor to 150 dwarves for their fortress to function at a basic level

[Bumber]

Because Suturing and Wound Dressing jobs do not benefit from higher skill levels except that the job gets done quicker.

1. Surgery, bone doctoring and diagnostician are not in fact on by default, only wound dressing and suturing, neither of which have any issues with those with no skills doing them except speed.

Suturer skill level is related to the speed at which the labor is completed and rate of infection[Verify].

Can the wiki be updated then?

[Putnam]

That [verify] doing a lot of work, ha.