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[puke]

sigh.  oh, sigh.  still learning new and frustrating things.

- when you reclaim a fort, you are not always in contact with the same human civ as when the fort was first founded

- sometimes when reclaiming, there is a bug where there are no animals on the map.

the story of "Tombflew" goes something like this.  its a sad story, but i'll just cover the main points.  its also interesting to note that the embark screen text in reclaim mode said "...ere the beasts get hungry" and didnt list any specific animal.  then no wild animals appeared on the map.  there used to be plentiful herds of unicorns, and the dwarfs still make engravings about them...

1 - Dwarf Hammerlord rallys all nine human leaders to his banner.
2 - Tombflew is founded, and a mighty fortress is carved out of the rock.
3 - Contact is made with the Earthen Confederacies.  They have two leaders, and not 10.
4 - Tombflew is abandoned
5 - Dwarf Hammerlord relocates all nine human leaders to the capitol of the Earthen Confederacies
6 - Hammerlord retires with his ultra-mega-alliance in place
7 - Tombflew is reclaimed and much effort is spent cleaning up the mess.
8 - Contact is made with the Oaken Confederations.  argh.  they have two leaders and not 10.

oh, lord how i regret abandoning my first partially successfull attempt to "start a new world and do it right".  if i knew then what i know now, i would have been EUPHORIC just to have more than three people listed on the leader screen of the (c)iv report.  if i only appreciated the magnitude of the sheer Random Chance that conspired to allow my earlier attempt some degree of success.

[AlanL]

I guess save scum on the events that the rng really counts in as wether your attempts are a success or not... that way even if theres only a 1 out of 15 chance of getting it right, all you have to do is redo that event approximately 15 times or so until you get the desired result, rather than redoing your entire attempt 15 times or so.

[ August 05, 2007: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[RedWick]

This is making me want to see the ability in Fortress Mode to send out diplomats to make contact with distant civilizations.  Could be useful for those locations which don't have *any* contact with a different civ.

[puke]

quote:Originally posted by AlanL:
<STRONG>I mock your futile efforts against the RNG.  mock mock mock mock.</STRONG>

yeah, tell me about it.  not only did i blatantly CHEAT in adventure mode to keep those human leaders alive, but i also save scummed the hell out of fortress mode to try and nail the right fortress location.

like, at least 16 times.  I ran several individual games up to the second autum when humans came.  then I ran even MORE parallel games (i got no slowdown running two games at once, and only slowdown on 3/4 games when running 4 instances of DF at once).  and STILL i've got no love.

I think once I even sucessfully made contact with the right civ, but it didnt list all my compantions.  so i went back to adventure mode to get them up to "loyal".  I dont think that is the problem, though.  I think the problem is that I needed to start a second adventurer after retiring the first, so as to lock-in / witness the entire party hanging out in the civ capitol.  at least thats the only think i can think of thats different between this attempt and the first one that had minor success.

[AlanL]

Hey, I wasnt mocking you, I was trying to help, I honestly didnt know if you were scumming or not. If anything, I want to see this work. Hmm, do you think that which civ you contact is decided when the humans arrive, or when the fort is started? If its decided the instant the humans first arrive, then I would imagine it would make scumming a lot more efficient, so it might be something to test for. As for the listed leaders, youre probably pioneering this stuff, so you know more about it than anyone else.

[ August 07, 2007: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[puke]

aw, i was just kidding around.  i appreciate the comments and feedback.  that WOULD be cool if it was determined when the first caravan arrives, but i kind of doubt it.  its easy enough to check for, so i'll take a look at it next time.

also, i think there might be something wrong with how im trying.  like maybe the first success had something to do with the deep'd fort and the dead king.  maybe theres something fundamentally borked with how i've collected all the human nobles, and my scumm point is too far passed where i can fix it.  my first success had Fort > Deeped > Adventure > Adventure > Fort > Fort (i think).  My current attempt has Adventure > Fort > Adventure > Reclaim.  Maybe the initial fort construction had something to do with it.  

I hate to give up a world with such awsome characters as Timta Supperbuttons, but i think it might be better to gen a new world and be more methodical about my scumming.  I think I should start fresh, and plan to do it something like this:

Fort > Abandon > Adventure x 10 > Reclaim.  This time I'll start an adventure in each human civ, so it will be easier to map things out.  I'll take copious notes on my world map, instead of the general scrawlings and leader/capitol lists that i have now, and i'll make it worthwhile by recruiting not-only the human leaders, but my adventurers too.  that way my Ultra-Mega-Alliance will be Ultra-Ultra-Mega-Mega.  or something.

[puke]

oh, im so excited.  i've noticed new behavior.  Instead of generating a new world, I took one that I had sitting around that I've never actually played in.  I kept this one because it had multiple treeless terrifying areas in different biomes, and some with no-contact.

for this experiment though, i picked a site that was heavily forrested.  if im going to make war on the humans, i might as well have some balista parts and ammo.

First: started a human adventurer in every human civ.  moved each one to their local capital.  met the leader.  recorded the adventurers name, leaders name, civ's name, and capitols name.  marked each capital on the map.  DID NOT join parties bewteen any adventurers and civ leaders.

on the way, learned the name of the demon who is locked in the mountain range where my fort will be.  its a good one, but i dont have it here so i cant remember it now, but i will post it later.

Second: Founded a new fort, Archship.  No animals on the map, for some reason.  Brought in 4 skilled miners, 4 picks, two skilled engravers, one skilled herbalist.  loaded up the rest of my points on meat, brought nothing else.  Carved out the foundation for the fort, all the way to the magma.  just about the time I was reaching the magma and finishing smoothing the floor to mud-proof it, the humans came.

Contact made with human merchants in early spring (happened before i was expecting it, so i didnt get a good scum-point setup).  on the (c)iv list, it lists the adventurer AND the civ leader that were in that capitol.  They are both listed by profession, rather than "associate of..." -- i suspect this is because they were not joined in a party, but were rather just individual residents of that city.

Seized their goods and abandoned the fort while the humans were still in the trade depot.  HAH!

Third: migrated adventurers and civ leaders to that same capital.  I brought them in three waves.  The first was an adventurer who to their local leader, and the adventurer-leader pair from two other civs.  a similar group of 6 from another adventurer, and a smaller group of 4 from another.   I did not have any of them join groups, nor join groups with the original leader in the target capitol.

i'm currently working on bringing in a representative dwarf from each dwarf civ.

next step will be reclaiming and trying to make contact with that same civilization again.  i am hoping to have a positive result tonight.  this project must suceed before the next version comes out!!

[utunnels]

I notice one of my retired dwarf appeared in civilization menu(under the dwarf king). He has a customized name, so it's easy to notice. (All NPCs laughed at his 'funny' name, so I preferred to retire)

So I ask, will all your retired adventurers be list in menu in fortress mode after their caravan arrive?

[ August 09, 2007: Message edited by: utunnels ]