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[puke]

based on another post i read, i'm going to try and create a world-spanning alliance in adventure mode.

I intend to get as many human leaders as I can into one adventuring party, and then retire in one of their capitols.

I had two, but one of them was mobbed by skeletons at night and i couldnt find where he was to save him.  i wish there was some sort of directional clues as to where fights are happening, as i've lost more party members that way...

anyway, after i have a large alliance built, i intend to try and place a fort where it will encounter that civilization of humans.

then i plan on getting into a seige with them.

then i might try scumbing to the seige and re-visitng the fort in adventure mode, i dont know yet.

has anyone tried this?  or something like it?  any other bright ideas?

[Fleeb]

Go for it man! And document it well.

[Gaulgath]

Heh, this will be a long project. I've noticed that human sieges are large but they rarely seem to do anything.

Good luck, and do tell what happens!

[Narushima]

See you in ten years, then !

[puke]

i loaded up the world map, saw that the two largest human cities were right next to each other and in the same empire, and went there with my one surviving spearmaster.

did a few quests, and once they were "loyal" (i've noticed that human leaders will sometimes join you before they are loyal, or even before you have done any quests with them at all) I joined up with the local master archer and called it a day.  Two human leaders, one dwarf, and a random hammerman will have to be good enough for the experiment.

I started up a human adventurer as a member of that civ, and asked for the capitol.  they told me where it was, and that blahblah the Spearmaster was there!  not the original master archer, but the forign spearmaster that i brought!  so I went there, and asked someone else.  they mentioned that the master archer was there.

indeed, all four of the characters (two human leaders, one dwarf, one random hammerman) were hanging out.  only the original leader would give quests, the rest said either that they wouldnt bother or "ask me when i get home".

I started up other human adventurers (yes, my map is such that a noob adventurer cant safely walk from one human empire to the next) and checked out both the capitol where i the leader joined me and died, and also the one where the leader joined me and retired elsewhere.  in each case, the citizens of the civilization directed me to the capitol but did not mention anyone being there.

and indeed no one was.

so ive cranked up a fort and i guess im going to skip all the crafting / trading / artisan stuff and just start pumping out a military.  its nearest the empire where i retired, but its still the first year so i have not make contact with the humans yet.  i'll keep you posted.

[puke]

running into some trouble.  the fort i started was actually nearer to a different human civ.  so i went and picked up that leader, and started a brought him back.

of course, on the way back, a giant cougar or something kills one of my other human leaders in the middle of the night.

i start a new fort, this time its closest to the correct civilization.  but the human leader of that civ has died now.  oops.

when their wagon show up, it shows that their leader is "nelti edingisu, associate of nelti edingisu".   nelti is the leader of ANOTHER civ that i parked in that capital with the rest of my party.  hmm...

i've also noticed something else that may be a problem.  when i un-retire an adventurer, he does not remember any of the old civilizations he used to know, nor their loyalties.  also, he does not remember his map...

[Keilden]

To bad they all where Legendary Bow/crossbow dudes/gals. Then you would have to fight in the shade.

[puke]

yes, the problem is that they unload all of their ammo on the first pack of wolves we meet, and then theyre left to use their exceptional quality bows as very low damage clubs.

with no skill in its use.

and then there was the legendary spearman i lost, because he got his spear stuck in a zombie's hand.  all he would do was twist it in the wound, which of course hurt the zombie not at all.  meanwhile other undead pummeled him senseless, and his only counterattack was a punch.

it was night, and i couldnt find where he went.  so while i wanted to save him, all i could do was read about his very. very. v.e.r.y.... slow.... death.

honestly, i dont know how any of these twits got to be leaders in the first place.

[Keilden]

doing quests?

[puke]

finally, a success! and some interesting results.  Let me explain from the begining of the world:

A great fortress is founded by the Dwarf Empire, the Books of Length.  this fortress attracts all of the dwarf nobility, including the king.  It is mined too deep, and later a dwarf hero returns to it to slay the demon.  He is killed while leaving the ruins of that fort.

A new dwarf adventurer from the Books of Length travels the world and enlists the aid of several human leaders and legendary warriors.  He retires in the keep of the human civilization, the Councils of Garnishing.

The Books of Length found a new outpost nearby the Councils of Garnishing.  the (C)ivilizations report indicates that the Books of Length has three rulers.  I can not explain this, as the king died in the previous fort and inquiries in Adventure Mode inform me that there is no king.  I have retired no adventurers in any dwarven mountainhome, and can not account for this at all.

Also, it is the second year of the new fort, and it is about 60 dwarfs strong.  no nobles have come.  not one.  I can only imagine that this is because the king is dead in the deeped fort.

The (C)ivilization report on the nearby Humans includes my retired Dwarf Hammerlord Adventurer and all of his associates.  I think if I kept collecting different adventurers and parties in that capital, that it would eventually be a very long list.

next steps:  get the human civ to seige.  sucumb to the seige.  try both reclaiming and also visiting in adventure mode or reactivating the retired adventurer to see what happens.

[puke]

as an update, nobles came in year 4.  significantly later than usual, but i guess it was a fluke.  ive been robbing every human caravan and squashing their merchants and wagons with drawbridges, but they have not seiged yet.

[puke]

after six years, i was unable to provoke the humans into raiding.  the project had been backburnered for a while, so i setup a new world to do it right.

I started a dwarf adventurer in a virgin world, and went about collecting all nine of the human leaders into a single party.  Then I added two swordselves, representatives from two elven "civilizations"

With my party of 12, I retired in Letterdawn, capitol of the Smooth Union

then i made some discoveries:

1 - fortress mode does not connect you with the nearest human civ, as i had thought before.  turns out i just had dumb luck in my previous attempt

2 - fortress mode does not consistantly connect the same site with the same civs.  its totally random

3 - when, after about 11 attempts, i finally was connected with the Smooth Union, it only listed two rulers instead of the expected 12.  this is completely contrary to my previous attempt where it listed my entire adventure party as joint rulers.

so ive reloaded the adventurer game, and made better relations (maxed out) with the Smooth Union.  i retired again, and hopefully it will work better this time.  I verified with a second adventurer that when asking about the Capitol, people tell me that each of the 12 adventurers are there (if i ask long enough).

crossing fingers.  hope i dont have to reload 11 times to make contact with the right civ...

[Faces of Mu]

Until you tried this experiment I wasn't particularly interested in armies. With the shifting allegiances and rulership, the armies idea is becoming very interesting.

[Ravendas]

This is pretty epic. I think Toady should read this and see what he thinks of all this. I think the interactions he has programmed may surprise even he.

[puke]

learned some new things.

- a reclaimed fort will be in contact with the same human civ as it was originally.

- reclaimed forts scatter your artifacts anywhere on the map, EVEN IF YOU HAVE NOT UNCOVERED THOSE FEATURES YET.  I purposefully did not dig to the cave river, because i didnt want to lose anything.  on reclaim, not only is my artifact missing, but there is a single green-highlight square deep in an unexcevated part of the mountain where my artifact must be sitting.  and of course is washed away in the first seasonal flood, before i can reach it.

- while human KINGS and QUEENS will stay with your party when you resume from retirement, those stupid poncy elves just wander off.

- when working on stupid projects like this, set up points from which to save-scumb OFTEN.  nothing like losing 3 hours of work because a giant tiger ambushes and eats queen supperbuttons, the human elite bowgirl.

what it seems like, and im merely guessing here, is that the (c)iv report shows multiple leaders for a civ, only when you have a relationship with each of those leaders.

several of my human leaders i recruited without forming actual relationships.  so i have loaded up the adventurer again, and am doing single quests for each leader to get them to affiliated status.

also, it does not seem to make a difference where you actually retire (which town or capitol you are in) as any civ with which you had a relationship seems to list the joint leaders.

keep in mind that your world map and relationships list and basically everything in the "Q" menu is flushed each time you resume from retirement, so i have to save-scumb back to my original save game any time i want to change something with the pre-fort setup.