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[Wallyom]

You wouldn't want to be part of a community that is that touchy anyway.

[Solymr]

The community doesn't want these types of people either.

[Buttery_Mess]

The artist who created Pepe has been on a mission to reclaim Pepe from the neo-fascists. It's being quite successful so far so Pepe shouldn't be automatically assumed to be hate symbol. However, posting a Pepe should be considered a red flag that bears closer inspection.

Daft to boycott DF because KF bans Pepe though. If you should be angry at anyone it's the fash you should be angry at and if you're not, you're probably a fash.

[Crashmaster]

Anybody frogposting in 2022 should be banned without a warning.  You're either /pol/ diaspora shitting up the blue boards or you think frogposting is funny.  Either way you should not be tolerated anywhere.

Such hatred and intolerance based on your own personal bigotry over humor. You really should be ashamed but I bet you feel righteous. This is why I say to let the idealogues have their hatred they revel in so much. They have built up an entire ethos to allow themselves to label and hate freely without societal recourse. Shame to waste all that work over morals.

[Flying Dice]

While I generally agree with the fourfold sentiment of
a) Pepe isn't a hate symbol and anyone who believes as much needs their head checked because they're falling for bait that's almost seven years old.
b) Pepe is fucking stale.
c) Trying to engage with ideologues who hold goofy notions like a) on ground where they have moderation powers is a pointless fight.
d) Deliberately rulebreaking anywhere and being surprised when you get banned is unproductive at best.

Toady has rules and warnings and bannings too you know. No different to anywhere else.

this right here is a really bad take. Toady is easily the most reasonable and levelheaded moderator I have ever seen. B12 averages <10 permabans a year, often <5, in a population with at least several thousand active users. B12 is absolutely different even from other (usually overmoderated) forums, never mind corrupt subreddits that shadowdelete comments they don't like and discords run by powertripping manchildren one step away from being gmod rp server admins.

[Untrustedlife]

I regret purchasing the steam edition of dwarf fortress, not because the game is bad or the interface still needs some work or even the fact my framerate drops to 5 when looking at a busy section of fort - as the game as fantastic, and the little issues will be worked out over time. No, I regret my purchase because the publisher, Kitfox as a policy is banning people from their discord for posting a cartoon frog over an imagined association with the alt right.

It's all well and good to be leery of political discussion in a gaming community, as frankly it's off topic and not why anyone is there, however pepe the frog is neither inherently political or uniquely associated with any group. There's a million different pepe emojis drawn doing different things and they're used all over the internet in discord, twitch and other gaming communities.

If they want to take this particular stance and make some political statement I guess that's their prerogative, but I have to voice my opposition and disappointment that they are connected with this game that I love. If I could refund my purchase and donate to Toady directly for his work instead that is what I would do and I will encourage my friends to do so instead as well.

I think that, if a Discord-moderation decision is a step too far for you, you simply aren't going to be buying much from game-studios, which... You know, fairs dos, Dwarf Fortress isn't the kind of game most game studios make, but I don't think Kitfox's aim to make a political statement so much as to have an official Discord that isn't full of unsavory people like alt-rightists, and banning Pepe the frog is now a much more reliable heuristic to that end than it was pre-2016. Obviously it's not perfect, but the folks at Kitfox are not chiefly in the business of managing an online community, and so the occasional false positive isn't going to trouble them too much. I guarantee that you are giving this far more thought than they ever have, and I think you will be a much happier person if you resign yourself to buying things from people who disagree with you, so long as they aren't, say, employing slave-labor

The far right has a weird persecution complex.

"Pepe the frog is now a much more reliable heuristic to that end than it was pre-2016"
Agreed

[Untrustedlife]

You complained that them having a rule was a personal attack on your values. It was pointed out to you that them having a rule and you breaking it deliberately and asking to be banned simply shows that you don't care about their rules and they were right to ban you regardless of whether you're a neo-nazi or not.

Rule is right, wrong, who knows? Prove that it hasn't been an alt-right meme in any country in the world since 2015 and they may listen to you. Throw a tantrum and you're just another rule-ignoring nobody that they don't need spamming their discord.

As someone who has been on this forum for many many years. I believe this thread is just some absurd ragebait.
Also, to the creator of this thread pepe is overused. Get some new material.

[Untrustedlife]

Does Itch.io also have political agendas?
I don't know, but that's where I bought it.

As an indie dev i can say that Itch.io gives creators a much larger cut then steam does, if you can buy a game on itch instead of steam and want to support a creator , do it instead every time.

[Untrustedlife]

The frog is kind of funny sometimes but in basically 100% of conversations I've seen like this it eventually turns out the guy complaining about overzealous moderation was being way worse than he wants people to think.

The full scenario was I commented about my dwarves doing something silly and posted an angry pepe - actually fairly sure it was my first post in the DF discussion channel as I just went there to report a bug earlier - then some mod DM'd me a warning you can't post pepes in the server, I said I couldn't see anything in the rules about pepe, but he pointed it out under the heading "personal attacks and harassment" that I skimmed because, like, why would it be there lol. And so I found it is in fact against the rules, as they state because it's associated with hate groups. I told him what I thought of such a rule and that I wouldn't follow it and if that's a problem he should just ban me now. Is that me being way worse than I wanted people to think?

Badness aside, you literally told him to ban you, so why are you here crying about it.

Her, but yes. (It was me. I swung the hammer)

Hey there!

[ayy1337]

b) Pepe is fucking stale.

sadfrog.jpg

The far right has a weird persecution complex.

"Pepe the frog is now a much more reliable heuristic to that end than it was pre-2016"
Agreed

The right have a weird persecution complex, btw I think we should ban anyone who likes this meme used by them 6 years ago 

[The_RyujinLP]

(troll removed)

[Tiruin]

Really strange seeing this moving out of proportion by focusing only on very specific things and extrapolating that to mischaracterize people v: especially in depiction of Kitfox/"what it means for me" when, as stated by tons of people around and posts unquoted, what was done was very reasonable and appending further malice onto them...because of not being as connected or inferring by this thread (which looks a ton like not being accountable for one's own actions/feelings/introspection) isn't going to be helpful, though that's one intended effect of downplaying others' integrity and the reductivity/omission that can be an integral part of it.

Kitfox built its community upon works and cultural writing from folks like Victoria Tran (author of the article, "designing communities for kindness") and how many more people still continuing it today. That other people's experiences matter while never diminishing others in turn, etc etc etc. The review process for selecting Discord Moderators is very thorough and people are chosen--not that I actually know but based on my experience--on continuous and genuine depth and character. There will always be more to say because of people who understand the impact of what's up, but not when mischaracterization is focused on instead.

Continuing the complaint as if still justified despite having been notified/told about what happened, instead of moving forward in goodwill/growth...doesn't help anyone. Folks have already covered the issue in full in just less than 5 forum pages; this isn't any conundrum or any moral failing--understanding context matters and people have given that in full.

Especially given the fact that...this is all on an emoticon, and there are tons more available that don't have such connotations. If it's Really, Sincerely, Genuinely about the "rule", that's been thoroughly covered already, especially when being told about details behind it. The question could even move to "are you satisfied with this now that you may know more?" All this effort to reinforce something like spitting at someone who told you in good faith not to so something is really needless (metaphor notwithstanding); it doesn't do more or add to what's going on. I mean, maybe it's a cultural issue seeing the effort into this complaint but passive aggressiveness doesn't go well as a whole, across cultures.

If you'll raise complaints, put as much effort into receiving feedback as you would in turn.

[Thorfinn]

1. The host may not always be right, but he's still the host.
2. See #1.
3. It's a lousy graphic of a frog. If the host doesn't like lousy frog graphics, so be it. Pretty much anyone else, "Lighten up, Francis."

BTW, @The_RyujinLP (and someone on page 1 or so) is correct that this was originally a leftist meme, specifically, a fascist one. Fascist in it's real meaning, not the silly caricature people have of fascists. With the exception of the pot legalization group, the original memes had no problems with authoritarianism, at least when the boot was applied to the right. I have not seen any recent use of it in any fascist context, left or ersatz right.

[Mohreb el Yasim]

1. The host may not always be right, but he's still the host.
2. See #1.
3. It's a lousy graphic of a frog. If the host doesn't like lousy frog graphics, so be it. Pretty much anyone else, "Lighten up, Francis."

BTW, @The_RyujinLP (and someone on page 1 or so) is correct that this was originally a leftist meme, specifically, a fascist one. Fascist in it's real meaning, not the silly caricature people have of fascists. With the exception of the pot legalization group, the original memes had no problems with authoritarianism, at least when the boot was applied to the right. I have not seen any recent use of it in any fascist context, left or ersatz right.

I learned that today... I always thought it was just an ugly frog
The only "animated animal" that i were aware was banned is Winnie the bear. But as I grow up with it I am against of its shaming.
As personally learned today it had rightist association, and I am active on the net since the 90's I genuinely belive some person might not know it.
Is it an officialy banned image (as sawitzka) in a country tough?
As if not then it should be so at least people can refer to something official for knowing what is allowed publicly

EDIT my aim was to advocate about clear communication, as i think it is more important than passing trends, but it seems that it is in their rules on discord:
"including Pepe The Frog." so as it is somewhat clear it ain't that bad. (even if i would prefer official lists established legally about what is allowed and what is not, as at the moment those rules are often "arbitrary")
still should be clear with a history to know "since when" it is offensive for them (as if they blamed someone then added the rule, then it is not ok, if they first put in the rule, and the offendant posted after wards that is more on him)

[Nordlicht]

BTW, @The_RyujinLP (and someone on page 1 or so) is correct that this was originally a leftist meme, specifically, a fascist one. Fascist in it's real meaning, not the silly caricature people have of fascists. With the exception of the pot legalization group, the original memes had no problems with authoritarianism, at least when the boot was applied to the right. I have not seen any recent use of it in any fascist context, left or ersatz right.

What is the real meaning of fascists that puts them to the left?