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[ayy1337]

I regret purchasing the steam edition of dwarf fortress, not because the game is bad or the interface still needs some work or even the fact my framerate drops to 5 when looking at a busy section of fort - as the game as fantastic, and the little issues will be worked out over time. No, I regret my purchase because the publisher, Kitfox as a policy is banning people from their discord for posting a cartoon frog over an imagined association with the alt right.

It's all well and good to be leery of political discussion in a gaming community, as frankly it's off topic and not why anyone is there, however pepe the frog is neither inherently political or uniquely associated with any group. There's a million different pepe emojis drawn doing different things and they're used all over the internet in discord, twitch and other gaming communities.

If they want to take this particular stance and make some political statement I guess that's their prerogative, but I have to voice my opposition and disappointment that they are connected with this game that I love. If I could refund my purchase and donate to Toady directly for his work instead that is what I would do and I will encourage my friends to do so instead as well.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Donating without a purchase might make you feel better. Steam selling millions ensures that Tarn and Zach can continue developing the game in the way they want to develop the game forever more.

The downside is commercialism and all that that entails.

I would focus on the positive. Valve also took a cut of your money and I'm sure you can dig up past instances of diabolical behaviour on their part if you look hard enough.

[Uthimienure]

Does Itch.io also have political agendas?
I don't know, but that's where I bought it.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Does Itch.io also have political agendas?
I don't know, but that's where I bought it.

Kitfox get exactly the same cut from the game being sold at Itch, so kind of irrelevant to the OP's post?

[Uthimienure]

Oops, I shouldn't post when half asleep, lol.

[delphonso]

May I suggest you post this to Kitfox? Their forums or customer support might be a more effective place to air your grievances.

[Tilla]

Not to speak for the Adamses but I'm reasonably sure they share this stance on Pepe and partnered with Kitfox because they share ideals, and Tarn was already known to work with the founder of Kitfox on several panels, articles, etc.

[Bralbaard]

Bay12 is quite open to discussion of political topics, just look at the general forums where a lot of political ideas are discussed. I can imagine however that when trying to run forums, or anything social media related it is hard to weed out the trolls, and to be fair, pepe has become a symbol for trolling, not even always related to the right. The meaning of a symbol or character can change when certain groups run away with it, just look at the swastika. I know the original creator of Pepe the Frog is quite upset about the whole situation. Anyhow, it's come to a point where using a Pepe emoi is a statement whether you want it or not.

I'm just happy I don't have to deal with forum moderation, just visiting the steam forums has made me remember how anoying that must be, though it looks like they are getting on top of the issues now. Moderation rules will (and should) always be a source of discussion, and the trolls will find new stuff to cling to when you plug one hole, but that does not mean you have to give up and not try to set some rules, I don't know if banning Pepe's is a sensible rule, but I understand it.   

[Ziusudra]

and Tarn was already known to work with the founder of Kitfox on several panels, articles, etc.

They published 2 books together. Procedural Generation in Game Design & Procedural Storytelling in Game Design

[Salmeuk]

i don't agree with the rule, I also think current day pepe users are generally uncreative people who should move on from a 2010's meme from 420chan (I would know, i was there when it was created  . . . before the great nazification and polarization of the chans, 420chan was a fairly leftist place),

 but I don't think this thread is going to reach anyone who might make a change to that policy, and will simply attract a certain style of discussion that (inevitably) forces a cameo from the Great Toad himself, who will not read your post but simply lock the thread because who tf has time for that??

tl;dr you are persecuting yourself, just like the rest of the alt right

[nobump] if I could

[Vivalas]

i don't agree with the rule, I also think current day pepe users are generally uncreative people who should move on from a 2010's meme from 420chan (I would know, i was there when it was created  . . . before the great nazification and polarization of the chans, 420chan was a fairly leftist place),

 but I don't think this thread is going to reach anyone who might make a change to that policy, and will simply attract a certain style of discussion that (inevitably) forces a cameo from the Great Toad himself, who will not read your post but simply lock the thread because who tf has time for that??

tl;dr you are persecuting yourself, just like the rest of the alt right

[nobump] if I could

"Persecuting yourself." "Just like the rest.." Hmm.

It always bewilders me how people get so righteous, especially over the magical frog. There's plenty of communities that aren't alt right communities where people just enjoy the meme aspect of Pepe. Equating your artistic opinion of the meme quality of Pepe with some sort of political truth about someone is a bit disingenuous, but so is banning him in the first place.

But I agree Toady probably would side with Kitfox here. Not that I agree, as I probably disagree on many fronts politically with the Toad, but that that's not why I'm here, because he's made a great game and I'd support him either way. I think people generally have this same sentiment though, and are just stirred up about it a bit more now since Kitfox isn't the Toad and is a bit of an outsider and perhaps more active on the political front than the Toad is.

May I suggest you post this to Kitfox? Their forums or customer support might be a more effective place to air your grievances.

In my anecdotal experience, the sorts of people who go out of their way to ban things like meme formats such as Pepe are generally quite entrenched in their beliefs for doing so, and aren't interested in hearing any dissenting arguments.

[Urlance Woolsbane]

I regret purchasing the steam edition of dwarf fortress, not because the game is bad or the interface still needs some work or even the fact my framerate drops to 5 when looking at a busy section of fort - as the game as fantastic, and the little issues will be worked out over time. No, I regret my purchase because the publisher, Kitfox as a policy is banning people from their discord for posting a cartoon frog over an imagined association with the alt right.

It's all well and good to be leery of political discussion in a gaming community, as frankly it's off topic and not why anyone is there, however pepe the frog is neither inherently political or uniquely associated with any group. There's a million different pepe emojis drawn doing different things and they're used all over the internet in discord, twitch and other gaming communities.

If they want to take this particular stance and make some political statement I guess that's their prerogative, but I have to voice my opposition and disappointment that they are connected with this game that I love. If I could refund my purchase and donate to Toady directly for his work instead that is what I would do and I will encourage my friends to do so instead as well.

I think that, if a Discord-moderation decision is a step too far for you, you simply aren't going to be buying much from game-studios, which... You know, fairs dos, Dwarf Fortress isn't the kind of game most game studios make, but I don't think Kitfox's aim to make a political statement so much as to have an official Discord that isn't full of unsavory people like alt-rightists, and banning Pepe the frog is now a much more reliable heuristic to that end than it was pre-2016. Obviously it's not perfect, but the folks at Kitfox are not chiefly in the business of managing an online community, and so the occasional false positive isn't going to trouble them too much. I guarantee that you are giving this far more thought than they ever have, and I think you will be a much happier person if you resign yourself to buying things from people who disagree with you, so long as they aren't, say, employing slave-labor

[jipehog]

It always bewilders me how people get so righteous, especially over the magical frog. [..]

Everyone, even people not from the usa, knows what it is associated with and what it is a dog whistle for, lets not pretend otherwise.

I have no idea what Kitfox policy is or what actually transpired in that instance. There seem to be one or more users (maybe the same person) with an axe to grind about getting banned at kitfox discord, and people here using the opportunity to talk politics. 

The OP have other communities they can participate in like here, steam, reddit etc.. And other avenues to support the game as noted in very first reply.

[ayy1337]

Everyone, even people not from the usa, knows what its associated with and what is is a dog whistle for, lets not pretend otherwise.

Someone should tell the protesters in Hong Kong, or basically every twitch channel and discord server where it's just an emoji.

I think you will be a much happier person if you resign yourself to buying things from people who disagree with you, so long as they aren't, say, employing slave-labor

It's not that I mind buying things from people who disagree with me, because I don't care what they believe. I'm taking issue that they are 1) assuming my beliefs from a popular emoji of a cartoon frog, and 2) care enough about my assumed beliefs to ban me for that.
I don't know about or care about Toady's political beliefs and I don't think he cares about mine, but if he started banning people from the forums because he was assuming their personal beliefs based on their posting style I would have misgivings about that too.

[Shonai_Dweller]

So, which actually happened?
1) You posted a frog and were banned. Later to discover that said frog was against Kitfox's Discord rules.

Or

2) You knew the rules, posted anyway. Were warned that they have a blanket ban on frog memes, so you posted again and were banned?

Because none of the above assumes anything about your beliefs, except that 2 implies you don't care about their rules. So obviously you're going to end up banned.

Toady has rules and warnings and bannings too you know. No different to anywhere else.