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Author Topic: Starting Out  (Read 2147 times)

The Black Hunter

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Starting Out
« on: May 22, 2007, 04:24:00 am »

I have had many failed attempts at starting in adventuring mode, as in i have never lived longer than half an hour.

I need a starting build, where to go, what to do guide.

Thank you very much.

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Aribar Hunter

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2007, 06:07:00 am »

.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 08:28:45 pm by Aribar Hunter »
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2007, 06:24:00 am »

However, I'd like to add that Dwarves sometimes offer significantly more firepower (or "hammer"power) than human towns can. It takes a sizeable effort to find worthy compatriots in human towns, but I've sometimes been able to hire two hammerdwarves and a marksdwarf by visiting just one of their fortresses.
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Heliopios

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2007, 11:26:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Sean Mirrsen:
<STRONG>However, I'd like to add that Dwarves sometimes offer significantly more firepower (or "hammer"power) than human towns can. It takes a sizeable effort to find worthy compatriots in human towns, but I've sometimes been able to hire two hammerdwarves and a marksdwarf by visiting just one of their fortresses.</STRONG>


This is true, because the dwarves have a much higher chance of being a solider of sorts than the humans during world creation.

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Koji

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2007, 01:56:00 pm »

Two pieces of advice:

One, always put ranks into shield and armor use. They literally decide how long you will live.

Two, try being an elf. It might just be me, but my elves always whomp on anything they run into unless they get swarmed/tired.

Dwarves are also a slightly better choice than humans due to their awesomeness.

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slMagnvox

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2007, 03:40:00 pm »

To best avoid dying, its important to identify what can kill you.

In DF Combat, you can win almost any one on one fight with even a starting character.  Face off against two or more monsters though, and your odds start getting much worse.  Grab a monster with wrestling then throw them to put them on the ground and stun them.  Can buy you some time to hack on a second monster.

Stay on your feet.  Use the [c]ombat key to keep your settings to Dodge enemy charges.  If you get knocked down, tand up immediately.  If something is now standing over you, move to a free square and then stand up.

Bite attacks can be very deadly.  Use wrestling to try and break the grip of a monsters mouth.  Stepping away can cause more bleeding and damage.

If you use a sword it will get stuck.  And the bigger the monster, the harder it is to unstick it.  A Minotaur you could've handled now has your sword stuck in his thigh and you can't get it out when an Iron Man joins the fight.  You aren't going to punch them both to death.  Carry an extra weapon or two in your backpack.

Travel to all the human towns until you find the shops that sell Iron.  Ruins are the best sites for loot and to skill up.  You can hit and run at a Ruins, grabbing some of the crafts lying around and beating on skeletons and zombies until you get too tired.  Then go buy the best iron weapon first and the best iron shield second.  Be sure to check the descrpition (v: View this item) to make sure its an exceptional long sword, not just an exceptionally decorated long sword.  Exceptional bronze is just as good as most iron if iron equipment is scarce.

There are some kinda exploitive ways to max out skills, you can read about that in other threads.  Wrestling is important, wrestling is checked when you dodge, attempt to break a grip or try to retrieve your weapon.  Skill it up by strangling any prone enemies.  You don't get skill for striking a prone enemy, so if your first shot takes out a leg, finish them off with a sound throttling.

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Grek

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2007, 06:14:00 pm »

Skills:
Proficent Spearman
Skilled Shield User
Skilled Armour User
Novice Wrestler

Stab at monsters until you hit a organ. Then retreat while the monster dies. Try sneaking.

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Cuddlefish

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2007, 09:41:00 pm »

I go with:

Novice Armor User
Then all other points equally in one weapon and shield user.

The reason for this is that your armor user skill increases pretty quickly as you fight. Your shield user skill increases much slower.

The next thing I do is go somewhere, pick up about 50 rocks, and then throw them at myself. This is a bit of an exploit, but I think each rock throw gives you 30 xp. You can get to proficient thrower very quickly.

My best advice also to run away if you get hurt. Adventure mode is cruel. If things look bad, be a coward. Living is the most important thing.

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Peristarkawan

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2007, 10:33:00 pm »

My favored way of avoiding an early death is to start in fortress mode, make a full set of masterpiece adamantine plate, put it in your trade depot, and abandon. Then start an adventurer and go claim your gear (it helps to pick a dwarf from the same civilization).

For illustration, this is an actual incident pulled from my log file (some irrelevant lines involving a frogman have been edited out). The character in question still had his skills at starting levels:

quote:
<STRONG>
You've been spotted!
The dragon charges at You!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
The dragon collides with You!
You are knocked over and tumble backward!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You bash The dragon in the upper body with your adamantine war hammer!
It collapses into a lump of gore!
The dragon is propelled away by the force of the blow!
The dragon slams into an obstacle and blows apart!
Limƒr Duthnurnekut, dragon has been struck down.
</STRONG>

(And yes, creating a full set of masterpiece adamantine gear involves cheating. It's probably impossible to pull it off if you don't.)

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Keiseth

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2007, 10:56:00 pm »

(Edit) Post was longer then I thought. Maybe you can make do with a summary at the bottom!

The most important thing to do (and this really applies to all roguelikes, more or less) is to secure an escape route incase defeat becomes a possibility, and to never get surrounded.

This one hint could be considered cheating, but it's more like exploiting game mechanics: Say you enter a cave to kill your quest monster. I am Lokum Stabsyouintheface! Prepare to die! And all that: As long as your speed is at least 1000, lure your target enemy up and out of the caves and all the way to the edge of the map. Make sure you're right on the edge, then attempt to fight. As soon as things get bad (a broken leg? Massive  damage?) leave the map. It's as simple as that!

Two, beware of groups. One skeleton is pathetic. Three can knock you down and break your legs. One snakeman isn't too dangerous; but a couple and your chances to get paralyzed are MUCH higher.

Next, be on alert for tough enemies. Mud men are never very tough, but giant toads can cause some serious pain. Cave crocodiles are EXTREMELY dangerous when you're weak. Anything that has a ranged attack is extremely dangerous no matter how strong you are. Snakemen can bite and paralyze you. Everything hurts more when you're knocked over: don't get knocked over, unless you're one move away from leaving the map. Even then, it's bad. When you're knocked over, Mud Men can bruise and break you, and they'll often attack three times to your one. A cave crocodile doesn't even need that much time to kill you if you have poor armor and skill.

Beware of encounters in the wilderness. I've lost a few adventurers due to being lazy and holding a direction only to keep running into a tree while a lion surgically removes my limbs. If you feel brave enough to attack your attackers, stay near the edge of the map. Be sure you can escape. Start off with ranged attacks: a broken arm or leg from a rock can turn a hard enemy into a matter you don't even need to concern yourself with, although prone enemies don't offer any skill.

Almost Lastly, be fast. The most dangerous aspect of being knocked over is having about 1/3 your normal speed. Weak characters with little agility will become burdened: keep your speed at or above 1000, or only slightly under and be ready to drop something to make a run for it. You can't out run anything with 900 speed. Even characters with 1818 speed are in serious trouble when they fall down! And they WILL fall down.

My final bit of advice is to always keep cover around if you can. Marksmen can kill you if you can't get out of their line of sight in one or two moves. When you do, either make a run for it or sneak and hide. Don't try to close distance if the marksman is any respectable distance away: I'm thinking two moves is the maximum you'll want to try, UNLESS they can't see you and don't know you're there! Don't try to beat marksman from a large distance with rocks; you probably can't hit them unless you're close enough to move up and smash them in melee.

Remember that anything, anything has the chance to kill you in the right conditions, just as you essentially have the chance to kill anything if you're lucky. If it works for you once, congratulations. If it works for them once, it's game over. A lowly harpy, all alone, managed to move to my heavily armed and armored, fully healthy warrior and in one hit broke through his armor and piereced his heart. He died from bleeding one turn later. It's rare: but it's possible.

Summary: Always be ready to run. Don't get knocked down. Don't take on anything you can't handle for sure. Always be fast: at least 1000 speed. Don't get outnumbered or surrounded. Anything with a ranged attack will kill you unless you're right next to them and have a sharp object in their brain.

...Don't flood the fortress you're exploring while you're still in it. =)

[ May 22, 2007: Message edited by: Keiseth ]

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Misterstone

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2007, 12:39:00 am »

I did really well with a mostly naked/no shield character a few times.

Put skill points in sneaking, throwing, wrestling (includes dodging skill) and a weapon skill.

IMPORTANT:  change your tactics settings; make it so you "move out of the way" when charged at, rather than "stand your ground".  Also, be sure to set default attacks to strike, not charge or grappling.

Sell all armor off (actually, I kept a helmet when I did this) except for a loincloth, buy the shiniest weapon for your skill that you can find, and get going!

Go to the nearing ruin area, and practice wrestling zombies.  Skeletons are a bit more dangerous, imho; they are faster and tend to bite more, it seems.  The way I'd train, generally, was by striking the zombie with a cutting or breaking weapon until it lost the use of its arms, etc. Then I'd either beat it with my fists (generally the fastest way) or wrestle/strangle it.  Be careful not to make your character exhausted.  Leave the map and come back if you start to get winded.  Do this over and over until you are legendary at wrestling.

Now you should start practicing your weapon.  The best way is to find a crappy version of your weapon and use it hack on skeletons/zombies.  Unless you run into a bowman, they probably wont be able to seriously hurt you unless you become totally surrounded.

Also, you'll need to practice sneaking.

Its a lot of fun to play a character like this, I found that I often killed creatures with conterattacks alone, without even trying!  It was like I was a whirlwind of steel!  I managed to kill titans and hydras with a char like this, without much trouble.    The main thing is PAY ATTENTION TO THE COMBAT TACTICS SETTINGS.  If you don't set them properly, this build will die much more quickly.

This is what I once referred to as "the loincloth challenge".  If you are not very familiar with the game, you might want to play a bit with a more traditional character and figure things out more.

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Keiseth

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2007, 01:47:00 am »

You're lucky! For all of my characters I've never found anything more interesting then a giant. No dragons, no hydras... the lords in their castles send me to ruins to kill elite bowmen/crossbowmen. Agh.

I tried a couple characters with only wrestling, so I didn't have any armor beyond  clothes. Really, you're pretty damn strong until you get outnumbered and beat upon. When enemies can't dodge your grapples, well, it only takes a throw and a strangle before they're out for a while. A few more strangles and they're out for a long, long while...

Edit: Technically surviving for a half hour is pretty impressive when you're not used to the game entirely. Hell, I can't survive that long very often in Nethack...

[ May 23, 2007: Message edited by: Keiseth ]

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slMagnvox

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2007, 06:31:00 pm »

High stats in shield user and the best iron shield you can buy is the single best defense against archer enemies.

I had a good training regimen when I took my adventurer down to the zombie gym.  Clear the ruin and leave a handful of sparring partners, legless Zombies were my favorites (make sure they have their arms intact so they won't start biting, heh), set your dodge preference to stand ground and attack preference to close combat.  Make sure your shield is equipped and lay down on the ground in the middle of your gym buddies.  What you want is the The shot is blocked! message.  Alot of those messages.  Scoot around in a circle or use the [.]rest key while they whale away at you.  You should counter attack with grabs, so this'll train up your wrestling skill very well also.  When you get tired, just stand up and walk around ahead of your friends.  They are pretty slow if you are standing up so you can "walk it off" when you get tired without having to Travel off the map.  You can put your shield in your backpack and use this same technique to train armor use.

If one of them mortally wounds you in the heart, don't blame me though.  You should've stayed closer to the edge and not relied on cheesy exploits.  Hah.

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The Black Hunter

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2007, 11:54:00 pm »

Thanks for the replies, it helped alot. i now have a mighty and very tough hammerer.

Unfortunately i have lots of stuff, and i want to stash it, how would i go about this?

ALSO: how do i get rid of people in my group?

[ May 24, 2007: Message edited by: The Black Hunter ]

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Keilden

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Re: Starting Out
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2007, 05:28:00 am »

To get rid of people in your group just find a cave and walk around in it :)
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