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[Sklex]

I quite like the new system, well at least in the early game it was easy to use. As my fort grew I was happy. When the proverbial hit the fan though I found myself in a swamp of chaos. No one was doing what I badly needed them to do and I wanted that control back. Granted I was not using Specialisation and I suspect that's where I went wrong.

I just want clarity on what is included in those pre-made options. Does Stonecutting include Masonary and Smoothening? Or is Smoothening under Engravers? Or is Smoothening not included? I would liek to be able to modify those pre-existing options as well.
I would also like to be able to apply a custom icon to the custom work details.

I like having an easier option in-game. I would prefer to see them polish this then us have to revert to external tools again.

[Randomizer]

I was under the impression that the features of Dwarf Therapist (At least the non cheating features) would be built directly into the game...

[therahedwig]

I was under the impression that the features of Dwarf Therapist (At least the non cheating features) would be built directly into the game...

It's weird, because none of the communication I saw indicated this. Perhaps there was a confusion somewhere? Maybe people were referring to other games which do have a therapist-style UI for labours and somehow a certain understanding was made from this? Do you remember what caused this?

[Raven]

well, we only have to wait for a DT steam version

[Mason11987]

I quite like the new system, well at least in the early game it was easy to use. As my fort grew I was happy. When the proverbial hit the fan though I found myself in a swamp of chaos. No one was doing what I badly needed them to do and I wanted that control back. Granted I was not using Specialisation and I suspect that's where I went wrong.

I just want clarity on what is included in those pre-made options. Does Stonecutting include Masonary and Smoothening? Or is Smoothening under Engravers? Or is Smoothening not included? I would liek to be able to modify those pre-existing options as well.
I would also like to be able to apply a custom icon to the custom work details.

I like having an easier option in-game. I would prefer to see them polish this then us have to revert to external tools again.

Agreed, for me if the built ins were editable, and new labors could have our own icons I'd be set.  It's otherwise perfect imo.

[Blue_Dwarf]

Sort of, you can create a new group and assign only one labor to it, and pretty sure you can only create so many custom groups.

You can create at least 99 custom labors.

The game lets you make more, but they no longer have numbers on them. Either way, if you somehow manage to reach 99 custom details, nevermind exceed them, you probably have issues.

[Putnam]

slightly irritating but I can see his point

especially the point 6, if that works, then half of my doubts are gone

it's one of the most basic features of the system, and I'm irritated in that post because people say stuff like this which clearly indicates they didn't make even the barest attempt to try using the new system before going online and complaining that it's not therapist. There's real stuff to complain about, but if you're not going to bother to understand it even at the most basic level, your complaints are fundamentally misplaced.

IMO the main thing that needs adjusting in the current labour system is playstyle... Which is not to say it's currently perfect, there need to be several more labours by default and perhaps a setting for "only dwarves of higher than X skill do this". But I think it mostly works pretty well if done differently than we're used to. For me the big thing at the start is to designate hauling and plant gathering as detail-specific, so that my carpenter and mason don't run off to do silly things, and I like to add a detail for building construction. Then, for tasks I want done well, I make dedicated workshops and issue work orders from the shop.

In general I am not finding this to be more or less micro than dwarf therapist, its just different micro. Of note, it meshes pretty well with burrow systems where labours are defined by burrow, though I don't do that much myself.

What I do think works well is that a fort can basically sort itself out with almost no micromanagement. It's just slower. Looking forward to certain features like limiting workshops to a specific proficiency level.

I think the manager screen can let you decide to assign a workshop to a specific dorf or to limit the minimum proficiency lv requirement, at least in classic mode is possible, still have to experiment on the steam version

i'm slow

The "minimum proficiency" feature is gone, and it sucks. I really think it should still be around and should probably be part of general work orders, too. Like, as a fourth option besides "everybody", "assigned" and "nobody", a simple "only those of above a certain skill level do this" would help a lot.

I was under the impression that the features of Dwarf Therapist (At least the non cheating features) would be built directly into the game...

All of the communication has been just about the opposite, explicitly saying they're not going to do the spreadsheet stuff because it's "the bad kind of overwhelming" (Toady's words, not mine).

I quite like the new system, well at least in the early game it was easy to use. As my fort grew I was happy. When the proverbial hit the fan though I found myself in a swamp of chaos. No one was doing what I badly needed them to do and I wanted that control back. Granted I was not using Specialisation and I suspect that's where I went wrong.

I just want clarity on what is included in those pre-made options. Does Stonecutting include Masonary and Smoothening? Or is Smoothening under Engravers? Or is Smoothening not included? I would liek to be able to modify those pre-existing options as well.
I would also like to be able to apply a custom icon to the custom work details.

I like having an easier option in-game. I would prefer to see them polish this then us have to revert to external tools again.

Agreed, for me if the built ins were editable, and new labors could have our own icons I'd be set.  It's otherwise perfect imo.

Yeah, the built-ins not only not being editable but not even having a way to see what's assigned to them (I had to ask what orderlies do, turns out it's suturing/wound dressing/feeding patients and prisoners/recovering wounded) is not ideal at all.

Also the doctoring situation is just bad, but that's only sorta... overlapping with the labor stuff.

yeah putnam isnt a roleplayer, doesn't understand how useful it is to have complete control over your dwarves, and has been making some rather derisive fanboy-esque posts about the new system. waiting for DFhack for sure

I'm running a valuable fort with 270 citizens right now and only 5 unhappy citizens, I kinda feel I know what's useful. And on the topic of roleplaying, uh... I dunno, it feels like the point of the game is that it roleplays so you don't have to? Besides that, if you're setting up e.g. a caste system or whatever, this is better than Therapist used to be, not worse. If you want only certain dregs to do cleaning or whatever, that's four or five clicks, no unassignment of all your other dwarves needed.

[Lav]

I'm running a valuable fort with 270 citizens right now and only 5 unhappy citizens, I kinda feel I know what's useful.

Actually no you don't. :-) What you know is what's useful for the types of fortresses you play.

And on the topic of roleplaying, uh... I dunno, it feels like the point of the game is that it roleplays so you don't have to? Besides that, if you're setting up e.g. a caste system or whatever, this is better than Therapist used to be, not worse. If you want only certain dregs to do cleaning or whatever, that's four or five clicks, no unassignment of all your other dwarves needed.

Meh, if you only want dregs to do cleaning, it's 6 clicks in Therapist.

You know, for someone who's getting so pissed when others criticize the Labors system because they don't understand it, you're awfully happy to criticize Therapist without really understanding what it can do.

The fact remains that at the moment, a properly configured Therapist provides the player with a better Labors system experience than the Labors system in Steam DF. The key words being "properly configured" of course, as it doesn't offer it out of the box, but it can totally do that. Steam DF still has the advantage of auto-assignment of all new dwarves to miscellaneous jobs, which saves a few clicks per season. Therapist provides effective handling of dwarf groups by various categories, making labor assignment much more effective and saving a bunch of clicks per each assignment of each dwarf. Not to mention that once you set up your Therapist views, you have set them up for all your current and future fortresses, while any changes to Labors you currently have to do from scratch in every game.

Labors system has potential to rival Therapist, but it's not there yet.

[Raven]

                                                                                                                                       
The "minimum proficiency" feature is gone, and it sucks. I really think it should still be around and should probably be part of general work orders, too. Like, as a fourth option besides "everybody", "assigned" and "nobody", a simple "only those of above a certain skill level do this" would help a lot.

ok this is kinda bad news...

I wonder why they cut all those micromanaging details

I can understand making the UI more casual friendly and some stuff I really enjoy like the workshop menu, the labor and noble all in one window

but
what about announcements log? what about the hospital health menu? take them back plz

[Putnam]

You know, for someone who's getting so pissed when others criticize the Labors system because they don't understand it, you're awfully happy to criticize Therapist without really understanding what it can do.

i was consistently comparing it pre-release to therapist's "custom professions" feature and praising that feature as therapist's best single feature but go off

Like, I have many complaints about many things, including the labor system, but I really, really like the labor system's concept in particular. It's the most scalable system for the game that I've seen, which is appropriate given this is one of the most scaling games in the genre.

[Orange-of-Cthulhu]

What I do it just accept that everybody does everything.

Downside is that the quality of items gets lower. Upside it everything gets done real fast, so I can then do more things.

A big Upside is I don't have to waste time to turn stuff like furnace operation or stone smoothing on on a bunch of dwarves, as it seems to be on for evertbody by default.

I guess older version, you'd get rich with fewer finely cut jewels, and in this version you get rich from a ton of jewels cut in shitty quality

I guess if I really want high quality of some products, you can just have only one workshop of the type and then restrict it to the master-smith.

I like that everybody seems to do engravings. I'm seeing it more as like to know what all the dwarves think is important, rather than just the 3 uber-legendary usual engravers.

[EmperorCoolidge]

The new labor system was confusing and annoying at first but now that I've worked it out I like it a lot. Dwarves are a little less specialized but jobs get done more efficiently and with way less labor micro (and easy to see at a glance!).

Biggest breakthrough for me: Setting one or two dwarves to be locked in some specific low value but constant task that all dwarves are nonetheless allowed to do. E.g. I have a couple guys who are only allowed to build walls, or haul, or brew, or plant (In addition to the obvious specialists like miners, legendary engravers/armorers/what have you). This avoids a problem I initially had where the fort would be mass committed to something and ignore other low priority ongoing tasks (everyone hauling so no brewing/planting/building, everyone building so no brewing/planting/hauling etc).

[Erk]

I quite like the new system, well at least in the early game it was easy to use. As my fort grew I was happy. When the proverbial hit the fan though I found myself in a swamp of chaos. No one was doing what I badly needed them to do and I wanted that control back. Granted I was not using Specialisation and I suspect that's where I went wrong.

I just want clarity on what is included in those pre-made options. Does Stonecutting include Masonary and Smoothening? Or is Smoothening under Engravers? Or is Smoothening not included? I would liek to be able to modify those pre-existing options as well.
I would also like to be able to apply a custom icon to the custom work details.

I like having an easier option in-game. I would prefer to see them polish this then us have to revert to external tools again.

Adding clarity to default options and maybe letting us tweak what they do is so obvious I'm sure it's coming.

I also think that we're likely to see a new "only people above X skill do this" option, because again it adds a very low-micro way to maintain the same system.

most of the things that appear "cut" such as setting a minimum proficiency to a workshop are, I would think, just missing by accident in this early version. I feel like people who are panicking don't remember that 40d and 2014 were both almost totally unplayable at this stage of the release cycle. Comparatively speaking this is the smoothest major update I can recall DF having. It generally takes around 6 months for the kinks to get ironed out.

[Putnam]

40d wasn't, 0.27 probably was but I wasn't even close to around for that, 0.31 was literally unplayable for a variety of reasons (melting dwarves, woo)

[Raven]

some bugs of the past were quite amusing tho (I didn't use the term FUN for a reason, different category of enjoyment)

did you remember the drunk cats?

how in the world the game code decided that cats could get drunk? hahahaha