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[Koji]

People who get sex changes most often suffer from a recognized medical condition called gender dysphoria, wherein they believe themselves to be the wrong gender. Ask yourself--you know your gender is one way or the other because you just do. Deep down, it's one of those parts of your personality and general being that you are aware of and comfortable with.

Individuals suffering from gender dysphoria truly and deeply believe they are the wrong gender. Every part of their personality is wired to fit in with the other gender, but the physical body does not line up with that feeling. The only cure for gender dysphoria is sexual reassignment surgery. They're not mutilating their genetalia or getting weird back-alley operations. The surgery is legal, safe, and fairly common. Once someone expresses a desire to go through with the surgery, they go through a year-long evaluation where they meet with therapists and doctors to determine whether or not they have the condition and whether the surgery is the proper option for them. Around this time, they usually start on hormone replacement therapy, which is reversible and simply involves taking a few pills every day.

Once they've made their decision, and have the approval of a doctor and a psychiatrist, they are given a precision bit of plastic surgery that changes their outward appearance to reflect their inner self-perception. Thereafter, things are pretty much fine, except in cases where the patient is faced with uninformed bigotry from people who have nothing better to do than feel threatened by aberrant sexuality.   :roll:

Get educated. It's not that scary of a topic.

[Aquillion]

Anyway, anyone who is curious about sex-changes and why they're done nowadays can read up on it here.  You might disagree, but the current medical consensus, at least, is that there are situations where it is best for the well-being of the person involved for them to undergo gender reassignment therapy.  (It isn't an 'easy' diagnosis to make, though, generally requiring months of observation and having strict criteria.)

But this isn't a forum to discuss sex and gender issues (the liberal crime squad forum is over there!); it's a forum to discuss dwarf fortress -- and how they relate to dwarf fortress.

I wouldn't have anything against gay dwarves, personally.  In terms of setting I think dwarves are usually shown as a fairly 'conservative' culture, on one hand, but on the other, the values that are 'conservative' to them may not be the same as ours.  They're not even human.  Heck, for all we know, maybe two female dwarves or two male dwarves can have offspring.  And in any case, in some representations all dwarves of any gender have beards, so, um, how would you tell anyway?  That's at least one indicator that they're more lax than traditional human cultures on gender roles -- the dwarves in Dwarf Fortress have few gender roles besides clothing.  Women serve in the military freely, even, implying that there's little sexual dimorphism

As far as 'practical' dwarves wanting to have children, remember...  Dwarves live longer than humans.  In nature, same-sex relationships have been observed in many wild animals, and the general scientific thinking at the moment is that it serves a meaningful population-control purpose...  creatures have to develop a strong urge to mate in order to keep the species alive, but they also need a way to easily 'switch it off' in situations where rapid reproduction is not desired.  This is one way to do it.

On the other other hand...  it's not like it's a terribly pressing or important feature.  One reason to leave it out of the game:  It just makes things simpler to ignore it.  Of course, this hasn't stopped lots of OTHER things from being added.

Maybe there could be more same-sex relationships among the elves.  That would serve an important population-control purpose among such a long-lived species, too.

[ March 09, 2008: Message edited by: Aquillion ]

[Kagus]

Elves already have a method of population control.  

Dwarves.

[Patarak]

People, it was a lousy attempt at a joke...  :roll:

[Nesoo]

quote:Originally posted by Willfor:
<STRONG>So... the god of blood is displeased with the lack of talk about dresses? This... scares me for some reason.   </STRONG>

Well, it's nice to see at least one reply that's on topic  

[Bricktop]

Patarak, I hope you've learnt your lesson. If your going to post a joke, make sure it involves breasts. If the joke involves breasts, it is considered to be the be all and end all of comedy. If a joke does not contain breasts, it spawns ethical debates.

[Armok]

quote: Originally posted by Willfor:
So... the god of blood is displeased with the lack of talk about dresses? This... scares me for some reason.  

 
MOAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

Indeed, it is most enerving to hear myself say something like that...

[Kagus]

But you see, the discussion was about gender reassignment surgery, which does indeed involve breasts.  The comment which sparked it off was a comment about gay marriages, a union which does not involve breasts, and is thus suspected of being short-lived/unwholesome.

Breasts have been involved the whole time, you just need to look closely in order to see them.

[Old School Gamer]

quote:Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>But you see, the discussion was about gender reassignment surgery, which does indeed involve breasts.  The comment which sparked it off was a comment about gay marriages, a union which does not involve breasts, and is thus suspected of being short-lived/unwholesome.

Breasts have been involved the whole time, you just need to look closely in order to see them.</STRONG>

It was actually the comment about reassigning dwarves genders,  making my derailment a bit more on topic.  But yes breasts are an important part of any discussion, really..  they ought to be, I suppose.

Clearly there are gravy-covered breasts involved at some point in the average dwarf meadhall party.  It's just that this particular dwarf would probably rather focus his efforts on artistic pursuits or less carnal pursuits.

If Dwarven culture "advanced" another couple thousand years, he'd probably be sitting on a couch somewhere worrying if he's "normal", while some dwarf with the "psychoanalyze" job is sitting on a chair next to him, basically wasting both of their time, and thereby continuing the current inhumanity towards one another which humanity seems to enjoy taking part in today.  

I've got a fair amount of opinions about modern culture, but I suppose I should find somewhere else to jabber about it.

edit: oh the inhumanity.

[ March 10, 2008: Message edited by: Old School Gamer ]

[Kaelem Gaen]

And now (In an attempt to get back on topic), as that debate went over rather... smoothly, seems more and more forums I go to are more and more mature... well until all the talk of breasts started, but in response to that,  Men have breasts too, and CAN get breast cancer. Anyways......

Yes, definitely Victorian in make *throws on a Monocle* Something to do with this disturbing rise in rings, one day they'll have rings hanging out their noses!

[Kagus]

It's only Victorian if it menaces with frills, or is adorned with hanging muttonchops.

[Block_Stacker]

My dwarves like to show a little more skin.

[Hyperturtle]

Well if breasts are an important topic of any discussion, perhaps we can introduce this into the fray:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_02/hawn2NKS2307_468x615.jpg

[Old School Gamer]

I guess we'll all go lumpy and gristled at some point if we live long enough..  Maybe we should go back to idolizing sculpture again instead of movie stars.. it at least sticks around longer.. maybe those dwarves are onto something.  

I think I'll start carving images of importance into my walls and giving them convoluted names,  model all aspects of life after dwarf-activity.  Hell, the city'd probably have no idea there was a big freaking cave under the house after enough years, and selling the ore and gems would more than make up for the effort.

[Hyperturtle]

Golly the last time I carved things of importance onto the walls in my home, I got grounded for a week