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[None]

I should like to remind you that Nazis are an ideology and LGBTQ people are people. Nazis are far right nationalist white supremacists with a proven history of murdering 'the other,' LGBTQ people are people, and in the eyes of Nazis, 'the other.'

'No appeasement' and 'deprogram Nazis' is not nearly the same as calling for genocide because queer folk who want to be the people they are without getting murdered for it are not committing mass murder. We're not calling for eradication of a people for reasons of nationalist zeal or political posturing.

And in case you forgot, the political right is literally doing just that.

'Deprogramming' isn't a call for the removal of a people. It's a call for a removal of the toxic ideologies that leads to the calls for the removal of people (queer folk) and the stochastic terrorism that the ideology results in.

We have so many better things to be doing right now than playing 'All Lives Matter' about Nazis. Allow me to be polite and suggest you find something better to do than insinuate that queer people are a skip and a hop from committing genocide or invading a neighboring country for imperialistic hubris because we don't want to play nicely with literal fucking Nazis.

[TD1]

........

Nazis are not an ideology. They are people. Nazism is the ideology.

Similarly, LGBTQ folk are people. Gender politics is the ideology.


I mean, y'all draw metaphorical battlefields all the time, complete with enemies and allies.

Which isn't to say that LGBTQ folk are Nazis, but both do inculcate strongly-held ideologies. And that can sometimes lead to similar methodologies of enforcement or 'deprogramming.'

XXXXXXXXXX
I'll note, with this, that I'll probably bow out of the conversation for a while until it cools down. So don't expect a reply to any comments, heh.

[Great Order]

Alright folks, this is the LGBTQ+ thread, it's not the Nazi discussion thread. While I get that there's groups out there that would like nothing more than for us to go away by any means necessary, this is a conversation for elsewhere. Feel free to make a thread discussing it, but right now I'm drawing a line before this starts turning into a situation that Toady gets involved in.

[Eschar]

Iirc this thread was created to make a place to talk outside of Ameripol. There's no need to import Ameripol here. Concurring with thread maker.

[None]

Sorry. Stepping back now.

[scriver]

So anyone take part of or see any cool parade stuff this year?

[jipehog]

And in case you forgot, the political right is literally doing just that.

This is LGBTQ thread and I am not commenting on the issues insofar that I think it could help[1]. And yes I think that the uncompromising view that everyone are either angry bigots or insulting disingenuous moderates with hidden nefarious narratives playing into your prejudice. While there is a genocide on going on is essentially a sensationalist narrative that aligns with justification of violence (they are violent, irrational, and coming for me). Personally, I don't believe this is healthy and often result in comments that for anyone else would have been cause for ban.

It doesn't mean people shouldn't fight for their rights, and I don't mean just stuff I would approve of, but they should stay grounded and find positive things about life/future (and people who explain this better than I do)

[1] I have some strong opinion about several related issues, but I don't bring them to this thread, as I doubt they will discussion will benefit my curiosity or people here.

Edit: p.s. I remember young self going on battles on Wikipedia over single words, because I felt it implied something about something, older me is different.

[Rolan7]

Was too busy to do *too* much, then injured a rib messing up my month-capping beach trip plan, but there was some nice stuff.  Heard from several remote friends who did pride for the first time (if not now, when?) and had great times.  In a lot of ways it was my first year celebrating as well- I never really felt proud, before.  wonder why lol

Some people had some really impressive outfits for it

I did go on the first weekend and it was pleasant.  Nothing radical, just nice sanctioned Pride in a nearby college town.  There's a place for that.  It's a contrast to what I did for Trans Day of Visibility, which was much more exciting and fun (and onlookers cheered us on~)

The Pokemon GO Community day, where people recognized me from the tournaments and said hi!  Was a Pride-like experience for me personally and very reassuring.  (And sweaty haha)

I didn't have my NB necklace yet!  I got to wear it to a family reunion.  I *mostly* kept it under my shirt but it was still comforting.


Something fun I saw downtown.

[jipehog]

sounds nice

[Great Order]

-snip-

I asked people to stop. It doesn't mean "stop after you get another word in" it means "stop before I lock the thread"

I don't want to lock this thread for a few days so people can cool off, and I want Toady stepping in, permalocking it and banning people because it's gotten out of hand even less.

Iirc this thread was created to make a place to talk outside of America. There's no need to import Ameripol here. Concurring with thread maker.

More because I'd be spamming other threads with LGBTQ goings-on, and I figured a thread to contain mine and others thoughts and comments would be a good idea.

American news is fine, non-American news is fine, most topics are fine but sometimes a news article is posted or a discussion started that results in people getting heated at which point the thread starts being put in peril. Hence why the sports debate is banned, it's been done to death already and it just gets peoples tempers up with no actual benefit.

EDIT: OK, my response was maybe a bit crotchety, but the point still stands. It's not that I want to sit here being petty tyrant of a thread, just that having somewhere to discuss things like this with other people is nice and I want to keep it around.

[jipehog]

I didn't see your post only the red warning about 5 fast-typers, but you do you. Things usually get out of hand when someone kneejerk to something (you can see they are rearing for a fight by the size of their wall of text) but worst things were said about religious people

regardless, just before that Strongpoint made a valuable comment about allies. Also I do think that you miss out on your community aspect, instead of sacrilege you might want to comment on NB necklace whatever that is, I suspect this will give a cold shower to all the haters and the opposite to you

[Rolan7]

Ohh maybe that's why nobody commented on the text in my selfie.
No reading only posting

[Frumple]

... honestly, the only thing I really noticed was it's nice to see someone actually wearing a mask still, so, uh >_>

[Great Order]

Hey, I still wear one. Just I do that when I'm ill rather than all the time.

I gather it was really nice for people transitioning over covid because they could hide half their face which made them look less masculine/feminine. And for trans women it meant a good chunk of stubble was invisible.

[Rolan7]

Yeah, exactly.  It's conveniently considerate to immuno-compromised people, but I won't pretend that's the *main* reason I do it.

It's not entirely about stubble though.  Proper shaving, a couple weeks of IPL laser, and some basic concealer has even my rugged follicles under control when I make the effort.  There's something about my face shape and I'm not conscious of what it is.  I'm really awful at analyzing faces (or remembering them), so I honestly dunno what it is that seems off.

It's not a priority right now though.  I'm just happy the IPL seems to be working!  Aside from occasionally being oddly cute/NB, I hate my facial hair a lot and it's literally 99% of my dysphoria, so I'm glad it's getting wrekt.  I'd rather rely on cosmetics as little as possible.  No judgement!!  I'm just not high-femme (and it's so much work and skill), and I don't mind looking plain and rugged.

There's something else at play there, too.  I'm still sussing it out, but I keep making myself more feminine but then hiding it under masculine clothing.  I epilate my legs then wore long pants during the summer.  I almost always wear tight sports bras.  I keep hiding my NB necklace in my shirt.  It's like I want to present masculine for safety and because "it's what I know", but have a secret feminine side for people I trust.  Someone suggested it's a control issue and that sounds right.  I don't think it's directly a fear of bigots... though that's certainly a factor with certain family members sometimes.
(hopefully those family members are coming around a bit, but this stupid injury is getting in the way of finding out)